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6th ProZ.com Translation Contest: announcement of winners!
Thread poster: RominaZ

RominaZ  Identity Verified
Argentina
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Apr 10, 2008

Dear All,

I'm happy to announce that the winners of the 6th ProZ.com Translation contest are now being displayed on the Contest Page.

I'd like to congratulate the winners and thank the participants who made this event possible by casting their votes. (Both submission and voting have set the highest record since contests started).

You can see the winners, view the winning entries, and leave feedback or suggestions for the contest here: http://www.proz.com/contests You can also leave specific feedback on the pages for each language pair, and for each entry where the poster has chosen to publish their entry and receive colleagues' comments.

Please remember that contest entries can now be exported to profiles as sample translations. You can easily export each entry you have submitted to any of the translation contests as sample translations to the portfolio section in your profile by going to the relevant contest page and language pair and clicking on the "add to portfolio" link at the bottom of your entry.

Winning entries will be shown with the "winner" ribbon in the portfolio and the reference to the contest will be shown with each entry. The material included in the portfolio section can be removed at any time.

I will be posting on the theme and ideas for the upcoming contest soon.

I hope to see you all there again!

Thanks again

Best regards,
Romina


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silvia367325  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 17:39
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Disappointment! Apr 10, 2008

I saw the results of the last translation contest and I should confess I am very disappointed. I did not win, nor the entry I voted as the best, but this is not the case.
I carefully read all the entries and made my remarks. It´s sad to see that the competitors made many mistakes, sometimes translating word by word resulting in nonsense sentences and even though, they got a lot of points. I was curious and saw the profile of some people who made remarks to the entries as well. To my surprise, some of them live in the United States, and probably lost the contact with the Portuguese language and they consider as a good translator someone who says " um dia cheio de tinta fresca". Although all the words of this sentence were translated correctly, the whole sentence is not a collocation in Brazilian Portuguese and I doubt that it could be in Portugal. In the most voted entries there are some other examples of the same kind.
I think that a contest to be credible have to be judged not only by peers (like me) but as well by the best people in the area: teachers, well-known translators, ideally living in the country of the translated language.
Please do not think that I am against the contest as a whole, I am only giving some ideas which you may consider for the next contests.


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Yuri Smirnov  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:39
English to Belarusian
+ ...
Supporting 100% Apr 10, 2008

silvia367325 wrote:

I think that a contest to be credible have to be judged not only by peers (like me) but as well by the best people in the area: teachers, well-known translators, ideally living in the country of the translated language.
Please do not think that I am against the contest as a whole, I am only giving some ideas which you may consider for the next contests.


I support your opinion. I have been saying for several contests that only a jury will save the contest. In En-Ru some winners (not the winner this time, it's relatively OK) had translations with the same mistakes you're describing: word-for-word is considered the best style.


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Dasa Suciu  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:39
English to Romanian
+ ...
disappointment as well! Apr 10, 2008

Not about the fact that I did not win, but about the voting.

I was very surprised to see the same type of mistakes in the finalists' translations as those I made myself. I was disqualified, I am not ashamed, these contests are a good lesson for translators. In conclusion, the voting must be changed somehow.


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Liliana Roman-Hamilton  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:39
English to Italian
Unfair Apr 10, 2008

I have just read the text of the winning translation for the RO>IT section and I have found some evident mistakes which were obviously overlooked by those who voted for this version (e.g. : "proprio li" instead of "proprio lì" or "cosi come" instead of "così come").
I have nothing against the winner, bear this in mind, I just think it is unfair that this version was chosen to be the best with similar mistakes.

Too bad that also non-paying members cannot vote...


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:39
Italian to English
+ ...
No quarrels with the IT-EN competition Apr 11, 2008

I went for a new voting tactic this time (partly due to lack of time) and it seemed to work. I didn't actually look at the source text at all when I was voting on the entries - I've done that in the past, but it meant I got hung up on the translation of individual words and phrases, rather than looking at the piece as a whole. This time I just read each of the entries and decided which I liked best as a piece of literature - which flowed best, which had succeeded in losing any feel of being a "translation".
I figured that any glaring errors would probably have been weeded out at the qualification stage, and in any case it would be immediately obvious if one translation included a totally different word or concept than the others.

In comparison with a previous contest, where using my old system I failed to give any points at all to the winner even though on re-reading I agreed that it was best, this time my votes were pretty much in line with everyone else's:

My first choice was the winner (congratulations on an excellent job, Simon);
My second choice came fourth;
My third choice came second.


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Agnieszka Zmuda  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 22:39
Member (2005)
English to Polish
Same here Apr 11, 2008


I just read each of the entries and decided which I liked best as a piece of literature - which flowed best, which had succeeded in losing any feel of being a "translation".
I figured that any glaring errors would probably have been weeded out at the qualification stage, and in any case it would be immediately obvious if one translation included a totally different word or concept than the others.


Yes, I applied the same tactic in the EN>PL pair, glancing occasionally at the original text. It turned out just right: all my three choices were on the podium: the winner + two runners-up!
Congratulations to all of them!


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Elisa Comito  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:39
English to Italian
+ ...
Me too Apr 11, 2008

I agree. And it's natural that the votes can not be fair. Because if most of the partecipants to the context (as in some language pairs happened) are not able to understand and render well the text, they will prefer those tranlations in which they see their errors repeated (only they will not be able to understand that they are errors, they will think they are valid choises!)

Elisa


Yuri Smirnov wrote:

silvia367325 wrote:

I think that a contest to be credible have to be judged not only by peers (like me) but as well by the best people in the area: teachers, well-known translators, ideally living in the country of the translated language.
Please do not think that I am against the contest as a whole, I am only giving some ideas which you may consider for the next contests.


I support your opinion. I have been saying for several contests that only a jury will save the contest. In En-Ru some winners (not the winner this time, it's relatively OK) had translations with the same mistakes you're describing: word-for-word is considered the best style.


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RominaZ  Identity Verified
Argentina
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Voting is open to members and users of the site Apr 11, 2008

Dear Liliana Roman-Hamilton,

wrote:
Too bad that also non-paying members cannot vote...


Voting is open to both members and users of the site. Please see http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=faqs#contests.8 .

Regards,
Romina


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RominaZ  Identity Verified
Argentina
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How to download the contest certificate Apr 11, 2008

Dear Contest Winners,

Congratulations once again.

Please remember that you can see the diploma in the "contests won" section of your profiles. You will need the latest version of Adobe Reader to see it. Here is the link to download it in case you do not have it yet:
http://www.adobe.com/es/products/acrobat/readstep2.html



Best regards,
Romina


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Jean-Pierre Bergez Saretzki  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:39
English to Spanish
about points.. Apr 11, 2008

I would like to add a couple of things to what has already been said.

My first point is about points. And the second, as far as the English into Spanish combination is concerned, about country of origin.

If the winner gets 40 points and a runner up 36, does it mean that more voters choose the winner as their first choice? Of course not, the way points can be allocated right now, a winner can be the first choice of less voters than the runner up, but make the remaining points on an increased number of second and third choices.

In my view, this is not fair, especially given the comments made above about who votes, their quality of judgment, and so on.

To avoid this situation, voters could be made to have one and only choice, instead of three. (Perhaps, they could also be made to justify their choice in terms beyond taste or preferences.)

Now, my second point. If more people from Spain take part both in the voting, it will be only natural that a Spaniard will stand more chances of being the winner. How can a Spaniard judge fully an Argentinean or Mexican version? Or vice versa?

I will feel 100% confident judging a Spaniard version, but only 80% with an Argentinean and the percentage will go down and down as more countries are added to the list.

On the other hand, we could leave things as they are. And regard the context as just a bit of fun, a pastime, something nice to do in your spare time.

Cheers,
Jean-Pierre


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ICL  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:39
English to Spanish
+ ...
@ Jean-Pierre Bergez Saretzki Apr 12, 2008

Hola Jean-Pierre,

I think you raise some interesting points about the contest.

1) About your comment of the contest being "just for fun", as "something nice to do in your spare time", this is how I personally feel about the times I have participated (sometimes as a voter, sometimes as a translator).

I think if you have a passion for translating, like probably most of the translators who participate in the contests, maybe the most important part is the challenge each text represents. In a way, participating is almost like a game, so the playful/fun part is already there if you really enjoy translating.

However, I think that, because Proz.com is supposed to be a website for "profeZionals", maybe the contests should have a more "profeZional look". And that means, at least to me, a more "profeZional" voting system and some minimum "profeZional" language standards upon which contest entries should be evaluated, plus all kinds of measures to avoid any possible form of contest abuse from those who do not take the contest as a community or "just for fun" activity.

2) Points: I agree, so far the general point allocation system does not seem balanced. IMO, if anything, the ideal would be, in the final round, to simply vote (equally, one point for each) for "first", "second" and "third" choice, meaning that whoever gets the most votes for "first" choice should be the winner and then the second, etc.

In regard to the qualifying round, I think the same logic should be applied: votes should simply be for "qualified" and "not qualified," and so those entries that get a positive balance of "qualified" votes should be the ones allowed to pass to the final.

Also, Proz.com should not extend the voting period until all entries have been qualified, but rather, once the qualifying round deadline is over, to allow those entries with sufficient qualifying votes to the final and simply drop the rest. So maybe there should be a longer period for each voting round, so that voters have enough time to analyze/evaluate the entries.

3) Spanish from Spain vs. Spanish from other countries / Voting system:
I am not sure you can actually say that there are more voters from either origin. I guess only Proz.com management knows this, based on their own statistics about the registered non-paying/paying members.

But of course this can influence the voting results, which is why I (and others) think there should be, besides the votes from members, a jury to "balance" this. More or less like the system some may have seen in TV contests such as "Got Talent", where you have a combination of jury/audience participating in the voting rounds. But note that this may only be necessary in those language pairs where there is a significant number of contest participants.

In the case of Spanish, the ideal would be a jury composed of members from both Spain and at least one Latin American country (best to have an equal number of jury members from either side). This jury could also help balance possible "unfair" negative votes if the reasons given for a negative vote are not valid (grammatically, linguistically, etc.).

In short, from what Romina has commented here and in other threads, it seems that Proz.com has plans to improve the contest process/voting system, based on the contest experience gained so far, so let's hope for the best.

Saludos,

Ivette


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Yuri Smirnov  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:39
English to Belarusian
+ ...
Agree Apr 12, 2008

ICL wrote:

However, I think that, because Proz.com is supposed to be a website for "profeZionals", maybe the contests should have a more "profeZional look". And that means, at least to me, a more "profeZional" voting system and some minimum "profeZional" language standards upon which contest entries should be evaluated, plus all kinds of measures to avoid any possible form of contest abuse from those who do not take the contest as a community or "just for fun" activity.


Hi, Ivette!
Haven't seen you for ages

I agree with every word said above.
And the developments in En-Ru pair just require measures are taken at once. It cannot go on the way it is. It's discrediting the profeZional look of the website.


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ICL  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:39
English to Spanish
+ ...
Hola Yuri Apr 12, 2008

Yuri Smirnov wrote:

Hi, Ivette!
Haven't seen you for ages


I've been trying to not let myself be too tempted by forum procrastination

I agree with every word said above.


It seems you and I agree on most of the suggestions for contest improvement, so that is great!

And the developments in En-Ru pair just require measures are taken at once. It cannot go on the way it is. It's discrediting the profeZional look of the website.


Yes, I have just read some of the comments at http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translation_contests/101941-i_have_an_idea.html , and it sounds intense. I hope things don't get out of control in the EN-RU pair.

Gotta run for the supermarket now.

Enjoy the weekend,

Ivette


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