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5th Proz.com Translation Contest Qualification Round has just started
Thread poster: RominaZ

RominaZ  Identity Verified
Argentina
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Nov 26, 2007

Dear All,

The Fifth ProZ.com Translation Contest submission phase for language pairs with at least seven entries is over, and the qualification phase has just started. Submissions are still being accepted for pairs with 6 or fewer entries so if you work on any of those pairs please make your entry!

In this contest voting is open to all members and to the users who have been registered on the site for at least 1 month and who list the language pair of the entry they are voting for among the working or interest pairs in their profile. You will have three choices available to decide if a given entry has a chance to win or not: [Yes, it may be the best] [No, others are clearly better] [ I am not sure/ Decline to vote]

Please remember that from this contest on, the option to vote to disqualify will not be available to those who in past contests voted negatively for an entry which then turned out to be a winning entry. However, the option to vote for the best three will be available for all of them in the final round of each contest.
Read more about this here: http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=faqs#contest_rules

You can cancel your vote and vote again only if the entry is still pending and subject to vote. You will be notified when your vote is a deciding vote and either qualifies an entry or removes it from the contest.

You can make your choices here http://www.proz.com/contests . Thank you all for taking part in this translation contest!

Kind regards,
Romina


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Henar Chico  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:55
English to Spanish
+ ...
Qualification Nov 27, 2007

Hi, I was wondering how many minus votes or positive votes a translation needs to get in order to be disqualified or qualified. Does it depend on the number of entries? Thanks.

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RominaZ  Identity Verified
Argentina
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Qualification and voting phases Nov 27, 2007

Both positive and negative votes are computed to define the qualification. This does not depend on the number of entries.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all of you taking part in the contest that "No comments about the submitted entries will be allowed during the qualification and voting phases."

Thanks

Romina


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Henar Chico  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:55
English to Spanish
+ ...
Votos Nov 27, 2007

Hola, gracias por responder. Sin embargo, aún no tengo muy claro cómo va la cosa. ¿Hay un número tope de votos negativos y cuando se alcanza ya estás descalificado? Lo digo porque veo que hay traducciones descalificadas y todavía quedan varios días antes de que finalice esta etapa. Lo siento, no sé si me he explicado bien, espero que se entienda mi pregunta. Gracias.

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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:55
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
I'm not clear about the voting rules Nov 28, 2007

Dear Romina,
Please can you explain - perhaps I'm being dim! Can a member vote in a language pair in which he/she has posted a translation? Obviously not for his/her own translation, I assume? I feel quite strongly about some of the entries in the pair for which I entered (both pro and con), but hesitate to vote because I'm one of the entrants and I don't want to disqualify myself. Also, I suppose it would be against my own interests to vote for someone else's entry in my pair, thus giving them an advantage over me!!
Thanks for organising the contest, anyway. It's fascinating.
Kind regards,
Jenny.


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RominaZ  Identity Verified
Argentina
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Voting rules Nov 28, 2007

Dear Jenny,

Yes. In the qualifying round, you can vote to qualify or disqualify entries other than your own from the finals. In the finals, you can vote for an entry other than your own as the best.

For more information please check the Contest FAQ http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=faqs .

Thanks for asking.

Regards,
Romina


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 16:55
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Votes of contestants Nov 28, 2007

RominaZ wrote:

Yes. In the qualifying round, you can vote to qualify or disqualify entries other than your own from the finals. In the finals, you can vote for an entry other than your own as the best.

Romina


I am not sure if I agree with this rule. As you can vote against other contestants, the fact that you cannot vote for your own entry becomes moot - if I disqualify other competitors, then it increases the chances of my entry anyway. In fact, contestants might feel tempted to do just that. I know that there is rule 12 to prevent that, but somehow I do not feel it is deterring enough ("If I win now, I do not care if I can vote later!").


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Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:55
Member (2004)
Italian to English
Site notifications Nov 28, 2007

Hi Romina

During the last contest, I noticed that the number of votes being cast in my language pair, both at qualifying and final stage, was directly related to whether or not the contest was being advertised prominently on the site.
When there was no advert, there were no votes. Advertising was resumed two or three days before the deadline and a respectable number of votes was cast.

One of my reasons for being interested in this (as a contestant) is that the majority of entries (and I suspect votes) in my language pair appear to be from non-native speakers of the target language.
Although the winning entry last time was from a native speaker and a worthy winner, I do get the impression that non-native speakers tend to vote for the more standard or recognised translation options, which can have a dumbing down effect on the standards achieved - and visible to potential ProZ.com corporate members!

So the more votes cast the better, I would suggest.


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 10:55
SITE FOUNDER
There is a deterrant. Nov 28, 2007

Jabberwock wrote:
RominaZ wrote:
Yes. In the qualifying round, you can vote to qualify or disqualify entries other than your own from the finals. In the finals, you can vote for an entry other than your own as the best.

I am not sure if I agree with this rule. As you can vote against other contestants, the fact that you cannot vote for your own entry becomes moot - if I disqualify other competitors, then it increases the chances of my entry anyway. In fact, contestants might feel tempted to do just that. I know that there is rule 12 to prevent that, but somehow I do not feel it is deterring enough ("If I win now, I do not care if I can vote later!").

For those who are not familiar with what Jabberwock is referring to as "rule 12" (currently FAQ #12), it says:

12. What prevents a contestant from voting indiscriminately against the competition in qualifying rounds?

If a contestant votes to disqualify from the final round of voting an entry that ends up winning the competition, the option to vote to disqualify will not be available to that contestant in future contests.

I see your point, Jabberwock, and it is something the team has been monitoring. In addition to the immediate discouragement (which is strong, I think), we expect that over time dishonest voters will be winnowed, leaving a pool of "trusted" voters. In the meantime, it does not seem that indiscriminate voting is changing the results of most competitions... but again, it is something that the staff is monitoring.


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Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:55
Member (2007)
Russian to English
+ ...
How it was last time in EN-RU Nov 28, 2007

Henry D wrote:


If a contestant votes to disqualify from the final round of voting an entry that ends up winning the competition, the option to vote to disqualify will not be available to that contestant in future contests.


I see your point, Jabberwock, and it is something the team has been monitoring. In addition to the immediate discouragement (which is strong, I think), we expect that over time dishonest voters will be winnowed, leaving a pool of "trusted" voters. In the meantime, it does not seem that indiscriminate voting is changing the results of most competitions... but again, it is something that the staff is monitoring.



Last time it happened so that I voted against the winning entry in EN-RU and yes, now I cannot vote.

Still please note the following -

1. I did not vote against it because it was "a strong competitor".

2. On the contrary, it wasn't.

3. And I had strong reasons to vote against it. And I can explain them.

4. Still, the entry was severely criticized by other members after the contest was completed and this possibly also proves that the entry was by far not the best one. They even mentioned grammar errors in this translation!!!

5. And I know that several other respected EN-Ru translators beside myself have been deprived from the right to vote because of voting against this "winning" entry.

Besides, please note that the contest rules were changed during last contest and the non-platinum members received the right to vote in the final round.

So, there is a potential possibility that the winning entry was chosen by "clone" profiles.



[Edited at 2007-11-29 16:44]


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Susie Miles  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:55
English to Spanish
Contest voting Nov 28, 2007

Dear Romina,

I only have one question as regards to voting:

When I open the corresponding entries (En into Sp), I only find a space on the right side which reads: Add Personal Note... nothing else.
Where was I supposed to enter my choice, as regards to:
[Yes, it may be the best] [No, others are clearly better] [ I am not sure/ Decline to vote]
Thank you for clarifying, if possible....
Best regards,
Susie Miles

RominaZ wrote:

Dear All,

The Fifth ProZ.com Translation Contest submission phase for language pairs with at least seven entries is over, and the qualification phase has just started. Submissions are still being accepted for pairs with 6 or fewer entries so if you work on any of those pairs please make your entry!

In this contest voting is open to all members and to the users who have been registered on the site for at least 1 month and who list the language pair of the entry they are voting for among the working or interest pairs in their profile. You will have three choices available to decide if a given entry has a chance to win or not: [Yes, it may be the best] [No, others are clearly better] [ I am not sure/ Decline to vote]

Please remember that from this contest on, if you vote negatively for an entry which then turns out to be a winning entry, you will not be able to vote in the qualification round of future contests. You will, however, be able to vote in the final round of each contest.
Read more about this here: http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=faqs#contest_rules

You can cancel your vote and vote again only if the entry is still pending and subject to vote. You will be notified when your vote is a deciding vote and either qualifies an entry or removes it from the contest.

You can make your choices here http://www.proz.com/contests . Thank you all for taking part in this translation contest!

Kind regards,
Romina


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Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 16:55
English to German
+ ...
knock-out system precarious - Nov 29, 2007

I think that the present system the qualifying round - of having the options only to vote "in" or "out" or to vote "not to vote", is very practical Nor is the sanction against possible voting. Giving the possibility of a 1/3 knock-out vote to everyone is not very plausible.

It might be much fairer and much more subtle to spare the qualifying round all together, and have one voting system based on points. I read the argument in the FAQs that the idea was to have the possibility of a more careful scrutiny in the final round for only a few entries. - But in this contest there will anyhow remain a considerable amount of hazard. As long as there are no serious mistakes in a submission, all judgements will come as matter of taste anyhow. -

Particularly precarious about the present system is that with greater numbers of submissions, hardly anybody will really scrutinize all of them sufficiently to be able to say "this piece might win" and "this piece not". On the other hand, even in viewing one single entry one could immediately, and without wishing to rule out any other piece, say - I consider this as excellent - 4, very good - 3, rather mixed - 2, just tolerable - 1. And if one considers an entry as not acceptable, one just doesn't give any points, which of course means - 0. - This would leave the possibility to everyone to give a judgement for any entry individually, even if one had not read, for reasons of time or whatsoever, any other entry. But in order to say "No, others are clearly better" I would have to read at least three. And if I do not have the time to do this, I clearly have no right to judge at all.

The present qualifying system puts all not accepted pieces on the same level - just out. Period. With no differentiation between them. But on a point basis it might have appeared that the best "out" was only very slightly behind the last "in". The result would be the same. But it could give the submitter a better idea - certainly not yet of his real quality, but of his ranking in the eyes of a very accidentally composed jury.

By skipping the qualifying round there could be more time for voting for all. The result would be very differentiated for every submitter.



[Edited at 2007-11-29 01:15]


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Susie Miles  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:55
English to Spanish
I agree as concerns this rule Nov 29, 2007

I totally agree with Jabberwock's point of view and I think that a voter that disqualifies an entry should be responsible for providing a brief explanation (maybe later) for such disqualifying vote. A disqualifying vote should be based on a sound reason. It is very important (damaging) for the participant to be disqualified.
In Spanish: Un voto que descalifica una entrada debe estar debidamente fundamentado. Es muy importante (perjudicial) para el participante ser descalificado y es necesario que conozca las razones y pueda rebatirlas o estar de acuerdo con las mismas y reconocer su error, aprender, etc.
Thank you for taking this into consideration...


Henry D wrote:

Jabberwock wrote:
RominaZ wrote:
Yes. In the qualifying round, you can vote to qualify or disqualify entries other than your own from the finals. In the finals, you can vote for an entry other than your own as the best.

I am not sure if I agree with this rule. As you can vote against other contestants, the fact that you cannot vote for your own entry becomes moot - if I disqualify other competitors, then it increases the chances of my entry anyway. In fact, contestants might feel tempted to do just that. I know that there is rule 12 to prevent that, but somehow I do not feel it is deterring enough ("If I win now, I do not care if I can vote later!").

For those who are not familiar with what Jabberwock is referring to as "rule 12" (currently FAQ #12), it says:

12. What prevents a contestant from voting indiscriminately against the competition in qualifying rounds?

If a contestant votes to disqualify from the final round of voting an entry that ends up winning the competition, the option to vote to disqualify will not be available to that contestant in future contests.

I see your point, Jabberwock, and it is something the team has been monitoring. In addition to the immediate discouragement (which is strong, I think), we expect that over time dishonest voters will be winnowed, leaving a pool of "trusted" voters. In the meantime, it does not seem that indiscriminate voting is changing the results of most competitions... but again, it is something that the staff is monitoring.


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Marian Vieyra  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:55
Member (2007)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Cannot register my vote FR>En Nov 29, 2007

Hi Romina,

I don't think you actually answered the question asked by Susie Miles. How do we vote in this stage if only our own remarks are visible? On my own entry I see + and -0 (not yet qualified) but no marking system possible on the rest.

Regards
Marian

Susie Miles wrote:

Dear Romina,

I only have one question as regards to voting:

When I open the corresponding entries (En into Sp), I only find a space on the right side which reads: Add Personal Note... nothing else.
Where was I supposed to enter my choice, as regards to:
[Yes, it may be the best] [No, others are clearly better] [ I am not sure/ Decline to vote]
Thank you for clarifying, if possible....
Best regards,
Susie Miles

RominaZ wrote:

Dear All,

The Fifth ProZ.com Translation Contest submission phase for language pairs with at least seven entries is over, and the qualification phase has just started. Submissions are still being accepted for pairs with 6 or fewer entries so if you work on any of those pairs please make your entry!

In this contest voting is open to all members and to the users who have been registered on the site for at least 1 month and who list the language pair of the entry they are voting for among the working or interest pairs in their profile. You will have three choices available to decide if a given entry has a chance to win or not: [Yes, it may be the best] [No, others are clearly better] [ I am not sure/ Decline to vote]

Please remember that from this contest on, if you vote negatively for an entry which then turns out to be a winning entry, you will not be able to vote in the qualification round of future contests. You will, however, be able to vote in the final round of each contest.
Read more about this here: http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=faqs#contest_rules

You can cancel your vote and vote again only if the entry is still pending and subject to vote. You will be notified when your vote is a deciding vote and either qualifies an entry or removes it from the contest.

You can make your choices here http://www.proz.com/contests . Thank you all for taking part in this translation contest!

Kind regards,
Romina


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