| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12] > | Should the "P" symbol be for internal eyes only? Thread poster: Paul Cohen
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Kristina Kolic 
Croatia
Local time: 08:37
English to Croatian
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SITE LOCALIZER | The "P" symbol should remain | Mar 15, 2009 |
In my opinion, the Certified PRO program is a great initiative and, as we all know, it is open to all users or members. I think it is actually fair to reward members who are dedicated to their profession and can demonstrate a given level of expertise, skills, experience and quality to distinguish them from other translators. You just have to apply for it if you feel like you comply with the standards required under the Certified PRO program.
As emphasized in earlier posts, ProZ.com ... See more In my opinion, the Certified PRO program is a great initiative and, as we all know, it is open to all users or members. I think it is actually fair to reward members who are dedicated to their profession and can demonstrate a given level of expertise, skills, experience and quality to distinguish them from other translators. You just have to apply for it if you feel like you comply with the standards required under the Certified PRO program.
As emphasized in earlier posts, ProZ.com is open to all kinds of translators alike: students, beginners, experienced translators, full-time translators, but also to those for whom translating is just another means to make some extra money to make ends meet. It has become quite difficult to distinguish a "true" translator from a "week-end" translator given the fact that anyone is free to add whatever information to his/her profile to make it look professional.
Any translator or translator-to-be has the possibility to become a partial or full member of the site, which is not actually a proof of expertise or quality by itself, but it is a personal choice. However, non-members do not have the possibility to quote on jobs that are reserved to members only, which might already be seen as being unfair and discriminating by non-paying members, although I personally think that it is quite normal policy to have more options available to paying members vs. non-paying members. All sites and all associations have a similar scheme (mere users or partial or associated members vs. full members).
The same applies to the Certified PRO program. We are all free to apply for it, or not, and I see nothing wrong in displaying the "P" symbol with the name of a translator who has made the effort to prepare an application for the program, to fill in his/her profile and provide the information required to actually verify that he/she complies with the requested standards. The "P" symbol, as I understand, carries rights or privileges, but also obligations, since it can be reviewed and revoked if the Certified PRO does not comply with the requirements anymore.
As to the "good citizenship" criterion, I also think it is only natural for this criterion to apply. The same criterion is also applied by any other certifying body: if you do not pay the annual membership, you lose your certification. We should be happy that ProZ.com provides this opportunity for free to its paying members, although it requires additional work, time and efforts. ▲ Collapse
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Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 08:37
English to German
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| Change of strategy :: Only professionals can join ProZ | Mar 15, 2009 |
Kristina Mijic wrote:
ProZ.com is open to all kinds of translators alike: students, beginners, experienced translators, full-time translators, but also to those for whom translating is just another means to make some extra money to make ends meet.
That was and is part of the problem, Kristina.
| | | | | The beginners have to start somewhere, and we've all been beginners once | Mar 16, 2009 |
Aniello Scognamiglio wrote: Kristina Mijic wrote:
ProZ.com is open to all kinds of translators alike: students, beginners, experienced translators, full-time translators, but also to those for whom translating is just another means to make some extra money to make ends meet. That was and is part of the problem, Kristina.
Why is it a problem?
As I said earlier, I like the way Proz.com is open to anyone interested in translating, and I don't see it as a problem.
I know at least two 'weekend translators' who are absolute experts in their fields and excellent linguists too. Their translations are among the best you can get.
Why shoudn't beginners use it to find the support they need? The other users of the site lose nothing when beginners browse through the forums or search for advice on CAT tools, ask KudoZ questions or whatever. Students on grants may not be able to afford the subscription. But when they do get established, they will be better translators because of what they have learnt from the site. (I know, I've been there myself.) In time they will be able to contribute as well, and finally earn enough to pay if they feel the site is worth it. They will not if they feel unwelcome.
It is only a problem if you insist that all members and users are the same and must be treated the same way. In principle they all have the same choices: to register or not, to pay or not, and to apply for the Pro-programme or not. Or which site facilities they will use, whether or not they contribute to forums etc.
They are all indiviuals, and they cannot all take on the same types of jobs.
Outsourcers need to see the difference between beginners and more experienced translators and which of them observe professional secrecy and the code of ethics, just as translators use the Blue Board to see which outsourcers are helpful and pay on time etc. No system is infallible, but that is no reason for dropping it altogether.
There are other associations for professional translators only, and they have different grades of membership too. For instance the one I know, the Chartered Insitute of Linguists has Associates, Members and Fellows. Some members, but not all, are Chartered. Many have not yet applied for Chartered status - including me!
As a site where translators look for work that matches their interests, and outsourcers search for suitable translators for particular jobs, Proz.com is entitled to sort them into categories. It does not make them better translators or imply that others are worse. It is a goal and an incentive for those who want it.
It takes all sorts to make a world!
| | | | | Can't "opt out" | Mar 16, 2009 |
ICL wrote: Eduardo López Herrero wrote:
s is not a truly optional feature. If you don't take it, you are damaged (the extent of the damage is not relevant, just in case). I am a full member with a whole year of paid fees ahead, and now I feel that I'm getting less for my money.
Again, there are a number of Proz.com features that are optional or rather the kind you can "opt out" from. AFAIK, once again, given Proz.com's "open access" registration policy, these features were created precisely to "filter" profiles according to some minimum standards: academic preparation, references of employers, etc.[/quote]
Once more: Nobody can "opt out" from the P system. Even if you don't join the program because of personal choice, it looks like you are a part of it and you couldn't make it into the P elite group. This is so obvious that I'd beg to be spared from having to write it again.
Therefore, if these features are part of the rules and general policy of this website, opting out of some of them or, on the contrary, using them actively are both your choice/responsibility and part of the advantages/disadavantages you have to assume when deciding to invest or not in membership.
Again: When I decided to invest in membership, the P feature was not there. I paid for three years and there's a whole year to go before my membership expires. I feel disappointed as a customer, and I don't think it's an unreasonable claim. The Ps harm my professional image on the site.
Furthermore, for example, people who participate very actively in Kudoz get a much better directory rating than those of us who prefer not to participate as much. Is this unfair and "damaging" to my profile or even to my professional reputation? I don't think so.
I don't think so either. But that's irrelevant. The KudoZ feature was already there when I joined ProZ.
About this fixed idea of PRO-awarded members feeling superior or something, I hardly [think] that is the case for everyone, and certainly not for myself.
I invite you to reread my posts. I said nothing about people feeling this way or the other.
Eduardo López Herrero wrote: To summarize my position, I think everything shown on a translator's profiles should be there under the sole responsibility of the translator, and the site should not attempt to certify anything. In my opinion, that goes beyond its objective and also its possibilities. I totally disagree, because, by that rule of thumb, everyone could ***SAY AND POST*** everything they wanted in their profile (as it happens in other similar websites which are not nearly as serious as Proz.com) and manage to get away with it without any minimum verification of this.
ProZ has not the means to verify hardly anything, anyway. Most of the stuff I have in my profile could be bogus, including my mother tongue and marital status.
Eduardo
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Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:37
Spanish to English
| Refund available | Mar 16, 2009 |
Eduardo López Herrero wrote:
When I decided to invest in membership, the P feature was not there. I paid for three years and there's a whole year to go before my membership expires. I feel disappointed as a customer, and I don't think it's an unreasonable claim. The Ps harm my professional image on the site.
In case you are unaware, you can ask for a refund of your remaining membership if you are not satisfied with the service provided.
[Edited at 2009-03-16 08:09 GMT]
| | | | | @ Eduardo (part 2) | Mar 16, 2009 |
Buenos días, Eduardo
(Btw, before I continue, I noticed we actually have something in common: one of our last names, so hey, maybe we disagree about this topic in particular, but we might be remotely related, like all the López... )
Anyways, it's Monday, the weekend is over, and it's time to get back to the daily realities of work and other weekly tasks, so I am not going to spend much time on my reply.... See more Buenos días, Eduardo
(Btw, before I continue, I noticed we actually have something in common: one of our last names, so hey, maybe we disagree about this topic in particular, but we might be remotely related, like all the López... )
Anyways, it's Monday, the weekend is over, and it's time to get back to the daily realities of work and other weekly tasks, so I am not going to spend much time on my reply.
I believe we have started to go around circles and have reached a point of clear disagreement on 2 points in particular:
a) That you say that you cannot really opt-out of the PRO iniative because if you do then you are filtered. Again and again, in case you are not aware of this, you are also filtered based on a number of other Proz.com requirement features (such as Kudoz), so what is the difference? (and the big deal?)
b) That ProZ has not the means to verify hardly anything. Again, this is a very very subjective opinion, obviously based on no factual data (or none that you have supplied so far), although I can definitely believe/accept some of the comments I have read here and in the other thread about this topic, regarding some people who apparently are revealing some irregularities regarding the verification process. I do hope that at least this people have taken/take the time to report this and that Proz.com mends asap any such irregularities once it is aware of them.
Que pases una semana productiva y agradable,
Ivette
P.S.: just edited the ending tag for italics in the "b)" paragraph above.
[Edited at 2009-03-16 08:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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