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Вы говорите по-рунглийски?
Thread poster: Jack Doughty

Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:55
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Russian to English
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Sep 13, 2007

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/12/wrussia112.xml

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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:55
Flemish to English
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Ringlish Sep 13, 2007

Panimajoe tjsut, tjust russki jazik. It amazed me that in Russian there are a lot of words coming from Dutch: Stoel, toilet, wanna (old-Dutch word for bath), deur (dver), machina (car), neus (nos) and other European languages : like muschin (man)-think of the brand 'muschino", gensjina (les genteople in old French) and to find some Spanish structure in Russian language: ex.: "oe minja baleed galava" is in Spanish: A mi me duele la cabeza (my head hurts).
Also the personal pronouns sound familair. ti, mi are the same in Spanish and "vi" (Ru) is Vd in Spanish...


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:55
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Runglish is not the right term Sep 13, 2007

Runglish is Russian English, i.e. broken/pidgin English as spoken by (some) Russians.
Broken Russian spoken by (some) native speakers of English could be referred to in a similar manner, but I guess Engsian (?) just doesn't sound good enough to use.
Given this, the use of "Runglish" for modern Russian slang, which, granted, is full of English words, is really a stretch.

[Edited at 2007-09-13 12:38]


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
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Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Man & woman in Russian and Spanish Sep 13, 2007

We're getting a bit off-topic here, but the thing I find most odd in comparing Russian and Spanish is that the Spanish for woman, mujer, is a masculine word, and the Russian for man, muzhchina, is a feminine word. I also bought a propelling pencil many years ago because of its brand name, Caran d'Ache, which looks like French, but isn't (as far as I know, "caran" does not exist in French and "ache" only means some kind of wild celery). Karandash is Russian for a pencil, though I believe the term came from Turkish in the first place.

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Radian Yazynin  Identity Verified
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To Jack Sep 13, 2007

If you remember the old Soviet circus, there was a famous clown Caran d'Ache (a pseudonym of Mikhail Rumiantsev), with his dog Kliaksa ("Blot").

[Edited at 2007-09-13 13:51]


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xxxsofiablu
Netherlands
Local time: 04:55
Karandash Sep 13, 2007

Jack Doughty wrote:

I also bought a propelling pencil many years ago because of its brand name, Caran d'Ache, which looks like French, but isn't (as far as I know, "caran" does not exist in French and "ache" only means some kind of wild celery). Karandash is Russian for a pencil, though I believe the term came from Turkish in the first place.


So it seems, from Turkish kara dash which means black stone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caran_d'Ache

Russian is an Indo-european language, it's a much closer relative to almost all the major languages spoken in Europe than one could think, even the ancient ones.

I will always be grateful to my studies of Latin for helping me in understanding and mastering Russian grammatical structure.

Interesting article, Jack. Thank you very much!


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Nadejda Vega Cespedes  Identity Verified

Local time: 04:55
Spanish to Russian
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Huge overestimation Sep 13, 2007

Williamson wrote:

like muschin (man)-think of the brand 'muschino", gensjina (les genteople in old French) and to find some Spanish structure in Russian language: ex.: "oe minja baleed galava" is in Spanish: A mi me duele la cabeza (my head hurts).
Also the personal pronouns sound familair. ti, mi are the same in Spanish and "vi" (Ru) is Vd in Spanish...


"Ti" and "mi" are not the same in Spanish: Russian "ti" is Spanish "tu", and Russian "mi" is Spanish "nosotros".
Spanish Vd. is actually Usted – consequently, not a single sound coinciding with "vi".
What you describe as "oe minja" (more or less smth like the French "chez moi") in "my head aches" is not structurally identical to Spanish "a mi" (which is basically "to me" in this phrase).
Moschino is just an Italian surname which comes from the word "mosca" (fly) and has nothing to do with the Russian word man.
And, while we are here, "les gens" still means people in modern French.

As to the article, has anybody here ever heard or seen the word "friendessi" before?
The Internet brought a lot of words from foreign languages, that's true, but those words are almost exclusively IT-related. You call a mainframe a mainframe because "general-purpose electronic computing machine" is long, awkward and obscure. The trend does not spread beyond that field though. Why? Because the Russians who are comfortable with the English language constitute a tiny minority. Just as simple as that.

That said, the use of English words as if they were Russian is really popular among a very different group: (some of) the Russians who permanently live abroad. They can "zabookat'" (book) hotel, pay "keshem" (cash) and "flipanut'" (flip) if something goes wrong. But then again, should they wish to use this kind of language when talking to an average resident of Russia, whether young or old, they will stand virtually no chance of being understood.


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Valery Kaminski  Identity Verified
Belarus
Local time: 05:55
Member (2006)
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English paying back Sep 13, 2007

My Diplomnaya Rabota was devoted to word formation in English.

I analysed 1500 new words which got into use in the 1980s.
Borrowings amounted to about 3 per cent.

It's really not much if we remember the fact that though English is of German origin, well over a half of its present day vocabulary was borrowed from Latin and French.

Now, it's the other way round. It's not surprising. I've got statistics somewhere for the same period (the 80s) which says that then about 60% of all mail and ~ 70 % of all phone calls were in English. BEFORE the Internet!

As for the article - I second Mr. Prokhorov's opinion:
"Young people always develop fashionable ways of communicating".



[Редактировалось 2007-09-13 18:51]


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Tatiana Pelipeiko  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:55
French to Russian
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Same for French a century ago... Sep 14, 2007

== The linguists, however, say the fear of English is misplaced. ==

Frankly, I would agree...


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Ludwig Chekhovtsov  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:55
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Русский язык наводнен англицизмами Sep 14, 2007



Сначала был "франглийский". Потом "испанглийский". Теперь можно начинать привыкать к "рунглишу", пропитанному англицизмами жаргону "кульного" (от англ. cool - "крутой") поколения молодых россиян, который заставляет традиционалистов проливать горючие слезы в их ортодоксальный борщ.

К ужасу старшего поколения, лексикон российского "поколения пепси" имеет больше общего с MTV, чем с Пушкиным.

Молодые люди в России шлют своим "френдессам" (подругам) приглашение на "дринк" в "паб" при помощи sms или по интернету. А кто не понимает, о чем речь, тот просто "лузер".

"Рунглиш", в 2000 году впервые введенный как термин российскими космонавтами, которые этим словом обозначали тот язык, на котором они общались на орбите со своими американскими коллегами на МКС, все больше воспринимается националистами как проявление западного наступления на чистоту одного из величайших языков мира.

После развала СССР англицизмы начали быстро проникать в русскую речь - как по причине простой нехватки слов для обозначения технических новшеств рыночного капитализма, так и вследствие влияния зарубежных поездок и иностранного телевидения.

"Множество иностранных слов проникло через интернет, - сообщил Владимир Долгов, глава российского подразделения Google. - Но теперь жаргон перетекает в прессу и рекламу. Язык развивается именно в этом направлении, и остановить этот процесс невозможно".

Обеспокоенный растущим влиянием английского, Кремль объявил 2007 год "годом русского языка".

Между тем лингвисты утверждают, что страх перед английским языком не имеет оснований.

"В молодежной среде всегда существует модный стиль общения, - сообщил Юрий Прохоров, ректор Государственного института русского языка имени Пушкина. - Чистоте русского языка угрожает неправильное употребление собственно русских слов, а не появление иностранных".

ЛIГАБiзнесIнформ
Информационное агентство
www.liga.net


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Ann Nosova  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:55
English to Russian
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Согласна с тем, что язык меняется.... Sep 14, 2007

[quote]Ludwig Chekhovtsov wrote:




Между тем лингвисты утверждают, что страх перед английским языком не имеет оснований.

"В молодежной среде всегда существует модный стиль общения, - сообщил Юрий Прохоров, ректор Государственного института русского языка имени Пушкина. - Чистоте русского языка угрожает неправильное употребление собственно русских слов, а не появление иностранных".


Да, это действительно так, и многие слова прочно прижились - и не вызывают уже бурных эмоций. Впрочем, мне этот знакомо более всего в области медицины, а там всегда было множество слов/выражений (не решаюсь назвать это жаргоном - но, возможно, это некий профессиональный жаргон), позаимствованных из латинского языка. Вероятно, в технике/финансах и пр. дела обстоят также.

[Edited at 2007-09-15 03:08]


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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 04:55
Member (2002)
English to Russian
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Анна Sep 14, 2007

Пожалуйста, щелкните кнопку edit и уберите цитату (или оставьте только нужную ее часть), а то такое цитирование очень затрудняет чтение.
Спасибо.


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Sergei Tumanov  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:55
English to Russian
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а мне нравятся голландские слова Sep 15, 2007

брюки
контора

кстати, каждый из нас, попадая на яхту, немедленно начинает на голландском сносно изъясняться :0)

штаг
форштаг
бакштаг
мачта
гик
фок
грот
шкив
блок
фал
дерикфал
юнга
ерунда
...
and last but not least - яхта! :0)E

[Edited at 2007-09-15 06:09]


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:55
Member (2000)
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER
A иногда, все поправляется Sep 15, 2007

В футболе, например.
В прошлом:
Гол-кипер
бэк
хаф-бэк
форвард
а теперь:
вратарь
защитник
полузащитник
нападающий


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