| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | revision of two million words of machine translation... Thread poster: Libero_Lang_Lab
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ttagir 
Local time: 22:53
Member (2002)
English to Russian
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...Вроде бы как и сам \"джобгивер\" появился здесь...
Я уже как-то писал года два назад по поводу \"гуманизации\" переведенных компом текстов \"в особо крупных размерах\" и о предложениях \"исделать\" такую работенку за копейки. Технология проста, как апельсин: 1) берется исход... See more ...Вроде бы как и сам \"джобгивер\" появился здесь...
Я уже как-то писал года два назад по поводу \"гуманизации\" переведенных компом текстов \"в особо крупных размерах\" и о предложениях \"исделать\" такую работенку за копейки. Технология проста, как апельсин: 1) берется исходник, 2) прокачивается через трансляторы, 3) затем предлагается \"чуток подредактировать\" эту галиматью за 1/20 реального минимума.
Некие оценки также еще тогда же предлагались: иногда такая работа становится даже труднее чем \"тупой\" интеллектуальный обычный перевод с компьютерными словарями, частью ВЕРНО переведенных исходников и т.д.
Вторичное \"закидывание удочки\" вызывает \"чуйство\", что первый червячок зря полоскался в мутной водице и никаких стоящих внимания ершей рыбаку не принес.
Но все же рьяная защита устоев демократии, следуя которой никак нельзя ограничивать свободу поиска, скажем так, людей не совсем понимающих сути вопроса и согласных на все (помните \"последнюю резюминку\" из другого места про 500 Кудов?), также имплицирует возможность профи предупредить своих коллег о \"панаме\". Правда?
Я просто старался сделать это с достаточной полнотой.
Yours,
Tagir.
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| | | | Elaine Freel (X)
Local time: 21:53
English to Russian
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| What are we discussing here, for Chrissake! | Mar 9, 2003 |
Somebody -- either a finished shark or just a newborn baby in the business, whatever -- has the cheek to offer a highly complex assignment for a fraction of the price and we, instead of just sending the guy where the sun don\'t shine, seriously discuss where exactly he\'s not ethical! We all know where, so let him stuff his assignment up that particular body part and go in peace. I\'m sure that sooner or later he\'ll find a beginner eager to practice at his expense, and he\'ll get the result h... See more Somebody -- either a finished shark or just a newborn baby in the business, whatever -- has the cheek to offer a highly complex assignment for a fraction of the price and we, instead of just sending the guy where the sun don\'t shine, seriously discuss where exactly he\'s not ethical! We all know where, so let him stuff his assignment up that particular body part and go in peace. I\'m sure that sooner or later he\'ll find a beginner eager to practice at his expense, and he\'ll get the result he deserves.
Although had I been as passionate about Fomenko\'s works as Tagir is -- or had he been one of the authors I _am_ passionate about -- I wouldn\'t let this rogue get away with it so easily.
Huge thanks to Tagir for loads of excellent information (and yeah, I got your hints, don\'t worry...  ) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam | Контратака Tamdhu | Mar 9, 2003 |
Я только-что получил следующий email от Tamdhu:
for job this size you have to prove your literary worth. starting price $0.015 per source word.
rgds,
FT
Rem: Most vociferous are russians, who do not have much chance to get in.
Так как я сам не подал заявки на его job offer, и здесь ничего не написал кроме отметки о его �... See more Я только-что получил следующий email от Tamdhu:
for job this size you have to prove your literary worth. starting price $0.015 per source word.
rgds,
FT
Rem: Most vociferous are russians, who do not have much chance to get in.
Так как я сам не подал заявки на его job offer, и здесь ничего не написал кроме отметки о его втором появлении на ПроЗе, кажется, что он рассылает этот email всем участникам этого дебата. Правда ли это? А какую выгоду ожидает он от такого сообщения? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | то что нельзя купить за большие деньги можно за очень... | Mar 9, 2003 |
Still, one of the uses of this site is to educate all parties to the business of translation. I have suggested that this potential (I wouldn\'t say prospective) employer seek additional funding. Were he to raise the $400K needed to retain a couple of decent translators he could get the work done.
The response I receieved was civil enough:
Quote:
Yr wrong. Thank you anyway.\"
... See more Still, one of the uses of this site is to educate all parties to the business of translation. I have suggested that this potential (I wouldn\'t say prospective) employer seek additional funding. Were he to raise the $400K needed to retain a couple of decent translators he could get the work done.
The response I receieved was civil enough:
Quote:
Yr wrong. Thank you anyway.\"
And there you have it.
[ This Message was edited by:on2003-03-09 13:34] ▲ Collapse
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Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 22:53
Member (2010)
English to Russian
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| А мне не прислал | Mar 9, 2003 |
Цитата (Джек): \"кажется, что он рассылает этот email всем участникам этого дебата. Правда ли это?\"
Мне не прислал, но это, наверное, потому, что именно я его сюда и направил: после того, как он поместил свое объявление еще и на TranslatorsCafe, я написал ему, что мол are you kidding и д�... See more Цитата (Джек): \"кажется, что он рассылает этот email всем участникам этого дебата. Правда ли это?\"
Мне не прислал, но это, наверное, потому, что именно я его сюда и направил: после того, как он поместил свое объявление еще и на TranslatorsCafe, я написал ему, что мол are you kidding и дал ссылку на этот форум. Думал так до него скорее дойдет, но увы...
Между прочим, у него там есть уже целых 3 bidders
Regards,
Nikita Kobrin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oleg Prots
Ukraine
Local time: 22:53
English to Ukrainian
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| DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Georgian to English
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| I agree ....... | Mar 10, 2003 |
He sent me the \"sample\" text when I saw it on another site, before it came here (same blurb). I would say the work itself (only) is perfectly possible for someone with historical and some astronomical knowledge (the conventional sort I mean!) given realistic time and financing
BUT he seems to have no idea of financial realities - who could afford to do the work on anything like those terms???? - and if he knows what he is doing the offer seems misleading (in my oppinion)
Wh... See more He sent me the \"sample\" text when I saw it on another site, before it came here (same blurb). I would say the work itself (only) is perfectly possible for someone with historical and some astronomical knowledge (the conventional sort I mean!) given realistic time and financing
BUT he seems to have no idea of financial realities - who could afford to do the work on anything like those terms???? - and if he knows what he is doing the offer seems misleading (in my oppinion)
What puzzles me is what his objective is -
even those big slices of free \"sample revision\" if people do them would take years to have any significant effect.
It\'s quite possible he may read our comments since he appears to be registered here.
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Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | i would say in fact... | Mar 10, 2003 |
...that this job is only possible for someone with an astronomical amount of time on their hands and a very poor grasp of personal finance.
while it is not criminal to offer this work at under these terms and this rate, this guy is the nearest i\'ve come across to a sweatshop baron in the translation business.
i sincerely hope that he either changes his ways, or that his reputation is publicly and permanently blighted by this shameful attempt to screw tr... See more ...that this job is only possible for someone with an astronomical amount of time on their hands and a very poor grasp of personal finance.
while it is not criminal to offer this work at under these terms and this rate, this guy is the nearest i\'ve come across to a sweatshop baron in the translation business.
i sincerely hope that he either changes his ways, or that his reputation is publicly and permanently blighted by this shameful attempt to screw translators into earning him a nice little pile of cash. ▲ Collapse
| | | | DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Georgian to English
+ ...
| Thank you for putting it so well | Mar 10, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-03-10 18:10, The Tautologist wrote:
...that this job is only possible for someone with an astronomical amount of time on their hands and a very poor grasp of personal finance.
while it is not criminal to offer this work at under these terms and this rate, this guy is the nearest i\'ve come across to a sweatshop baron in the translation business.
i sincerely hope that he eithe
... See more Quote:
On 2003-03-10 18:10, The Tautologist wrote:
...that this job is only possible for someone with an astronomical amount of time on their hands and a very poor grasp of personal finance.
while it is not criminal to offer this work at under these terms and this rate, this guy is the nearest i\'ve come across to a sweatshop baron in the translation business.
i sincerely hope that he either changes his ways, or that his reputation is publicly and permanently blighted by this shameful attempt to screw translators into earning him a nice little pile of cash.
Absolutely!
I hope it was understood that in my message I meant reasonable finance & time was supposed to come from \"him\" not the translator....
Thank you for putting it so well. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | three questions... | Mar 11, 2003 |
...that anyone considering a bid for this job might want to ask themselves:
1) Are Delamere Ltd and Mithec the same company? Why does Monsieur Tamdhu keep posting this job under different company names?
2) Is this (taken from their esteemed website) English and does it make any kind of sense, even if it is:... See more
| | | | Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | the "world famous" franck tamdhu | Mar 11, 2003 |
Elaine
You seem to have come across somewhere the fact that our friend is an internationally renowned figure in the art world. Might it be that you read the following:
\"Polina Zinoviev made successful exhibitions in Milan, Paris, and Geneva. Most of her \"images of music\" became part of the collections of world famous orchestra director Dmitri Kitajenko or internationally renowned \"Music & Images\" collector Franck Tamdhu.\"
This comes from... See more Elaine
You seem to have come across somewhere the fact that our friend is an internationally renowned figure in the art world. Might it be that you read the following:
\"Polina Zinoviev made successful exhibitions in Milan, Paris, and Geneva. Most of her \"images of music\" became part of the collections of world famous orchestra director Dmitri Kitajenko or internationally renowned \"Music & Images\" collector Franck Tamdhu.\"
This comes from the website
http://ring.mithec.com/eng/zinoviev.html
Which is run by, er.... Franck Tamdhu.
The fact that it is also the only one reference on the world wide web to the great Monsieur, suggests to me that his international stature might be somewhat exaggerated. Even my grandma gets three hits and she doesn\'t even know what the internet is.
Love it.
Franck - just because you\'ve got a big record collection and like to download images off the net, doesn\'t make you an internationally famous renaissance man. But if you\'ve got a decent recording of Elgar\'s cello concerto, could you make a tape for me?
[ This Message was edited by n2003-03-11 10:16]
[ This Message was edited by:on2003-03-11 10:19] ▲ Collapse
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Elaine Freel (X)
Local time: 21:53
English to Russian
+ ...
| Oh my God... | Mar 11, 2003 |
Quote:
2) Is this (taken from their esteemed website) English and does it make any kind of sense, even if it is:
http://free-history-dictionary-books-hotels-health-maps.mithec.com/
I didn\'t even dare look beyond the home page but assume it contains more of the same.
_________________________
This is definitely a machine... See more Quote:
2) Is this (taken from their esteemed website) English and does it make any kind of sense, even if it is:
http://free-history-dictionary-books-hotels-health-maps.mithec.com/
I didn\'t even dare look beyond the home page but assume it contains more of the same.
_________________________
This is definitely a machine translation, edited probably by a couple of Martians.
Funnily enough, I stumbled across some sort of New Chronology official web site http://www.newchrono.ru , and their English is quite reasonable. Definitely human! Which makes me suspect this whole machine translation thing is just an attempt to rip them (Fomenko) off. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Following the discussion | Mar 11, 2003 |
Hi colleagues,
For the last few days I with particular interest follow the discussion. I’d like to make some comments:
1) Preface: There is no need to discuss the manual. Mr. Fomenko is well known author. Before graduation from the faculty of translators of Gorkey Institute of Foreign languages in 1986 (being consequently trained in the field as you understand under USSR standards in comparison with current newborn so called translators) I... See more Hi colleagues,
For the last few days I with particular interest follow the discussion. I’d like to make some comments:
1) Preface: There is no need to discuss the manual. Mr. Fomenko is well known author. Before graduation from the faculty of translators of Gorkey Institute of Foreign languages in 1986 (being consequently trained in the field as you understand under USSR standards in comparison with current newborn so called translators) I completed several University courses majoring in the historical field. So I can assure you that “History” was tailored, is tailored and would be tailored according certain needs of particular circles. There are a lot of research work waiting for those who are ready to face it.
2) It’s impossible to perform any revision or proofreading of the present machine translation (poor by the way) without proper understanding of the given data and presumed historical conclusions, failing which the English reader wouldn’t ever be able to grasp the text conception and the consequences for the publisher and the author are evident.
3) The original pricing put by Mr. Tamdhu was 0,02. I personally consider is as fair enough for those who do not care about money but for the “idea” and are ready to sacrifice their spare time to promote the latter. Any professional work under the circumstances should be priced 10 times as much.
Regards,
Sergey
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| | | | Elaine Freel (X)
Local time: 21:53
English to Russian
+ ...
| То есть, если я правильно поняла Сергея... | Mar 11, 2003 |
-- и в чем Сергей абсолютно прав! -- качество данного задания по зубам далеко не каждому переводчику. Что само собой разумеется. Не по зубам, как Сергей правильно заметил, ещё и потому, что:
Quote:
the English reader wouldn’t ever be able to grasp the text conception and the consequences for the publish... See more -- и в чем Сергей абсолютно прав! -- качество данного задания по зубам далеко не каждому переводчику. Что само собой разумеется. Не по зубам, как Сергей правильно заметил, ещё и потому, что:
Quote:
the English reader wouldn’t ever be able to grasp the text conception and the consequences for the publisher and the author are evident.
То есть перевод должен был такого уровня, чтобы дошло до самого незнакомого с концепцией читателя. Дошло и \"проняло\". Но тут интересная штука. Сергей ссылается на работодателя следующим образом:
Quote:
The original pricing put by Mr. Tamdhu was 0,02. I personally consider is as fair enough for those who do not care about money but for the “idea” and are ready to sacrifice their spare time to promote the latter.
Я очень-очень, _лично_ прошу Сергея сходить на сайт, который выше упоминает Дэн -- http://free-history-dictionary-books-hotels-health-maps.mithec.com/
Там можно посмотреть, к каким результатам приводит подобный бескорыстный энтузиазм. Если бы воинствующие противники теории г. Фоменко СПЕЦИАЛЬНО решили бы создать компрометирующий теорию сайт, представляющий её в самом нелепом и неграмотном виде -- им не нужно трудиться, это уже за них постарался сделать господин \"джобгивер\". \"Английские\" тексты, помещенные на сайте, годятся только на страничку юмора. Вот тоже наверное преданные идее энтузиасты за два цента переводили -- внесли, так сказать, свои две лепты!
По поводу идеи -- у меня с идеями нормально. Я могу сесть переводить это дело хоть завтра, все остальное в сторону. За один цент. Но с листа! -- по новой, без машинного перевода, на что уйдет по совести года два-три _на полный рабочий день_. И что моя семья будет кушать эти два года, и кто будет платить за электричество и все дела? Булгаков в \"Мастере\" очень хорошо выкрутился -- он заставил героя сначала выиграть в лотерею, а там уже на досуге тот свободно предался \"идее\" и написал роман всей жизни. Но если не рассчитывать на выигрыш в лотерею, а спешно ляпать по ночам и выходным, как просит г.работодатель, по -- сколько он там поставил, 10,000 слов в день, если я правильно помню? -- то лучше бы такого перевода никогда и не было. Потому что если Вы, Сергей, хотите посмотреть на результаты такой работы увлеченных идеей бессребреников -- сходите на упомянутый сайт, уровень \"английского\" на котором сразу, сходу, вызывает полное недоверие к самой информации. Увы... ▲ Collapse
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