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Use of Trados without Multiterm?
Thread poster: Pristine
Pristine
Local time: 16:10
English to German
Aug 18, 2008

I heard recently that some translators are using Trados without having Multiterm...

What kind of advantage is that for the translator. Does it mean he gets no glossary?

When he translates without Multiterm, does it mean that just TM lines are repeated but not individual translated terms?

Sincerely,

Pris


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KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 22:10
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Advantage? Aug 18, 2008

None at all. Quite the contrary.

As far as I can tell from my discussions with various agency clients, only a minority of their translators using Trados make use of MultiTerm. This puts these translators at a bit of a disadavtage, because term lookups can only be done via the concordance function, and no attribute information is available for the terms. There's a lot to be said for the use of properly maintained termbases.

[Edited at 2008-08-18 20:53]


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:10
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
I don't use Multiterm and I am happy Aug 18, 2008

I use Trados a lot, and I have Multiterm (it came with it), but to be honest, I never use that. The reason is that at the beginning (several years and Trados versions ago) Multiterm had problems with handling Unicode, and that was required for two of my three languages. It required reconfiguring my computer every time I started working on a project in the other language. It was painful, and even then it did not work perfectly. So, I got used to working without it. I also found it extremely useless when I wanted to import glossaries that I kept in Excel or elsewhere. You had to do all sorts of juggling with the data, and it did not work very well. Maybe the newer version got better, but I lost interest long ago.
The other thing is that I always used laptop computers, and the Trados shortcuts proved to be impractical without a numeric keyboard. So, using the mouse for getting the terms that Multiterm would offer was taking up just as much time as retyoing them, plus, in Hungarian I would probably always have to conjugate the words anyway.
So, given all this, I found the Concordance function satisfies my needs.

I have clients with large volume software localization projects where having a glossary tool is essential - those projects are not handled in Trados. These clients use Star Transit and Across. I found Star Transit's glossary tool the easiest for me to handle (that is probably a personal preference).

So, for your question, Multiterm is an optional glossary tool, and it is quite possible to use Trados without it.


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:10
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
I would have no use for Trados without Multiterm Aug 18, 2008

I maintain extensive Multiterm termbases, and - following the most recent episode of one completely broken computer and one broken external hard disk (at the same time) - I soon realised that I did not want to do extensive back-ups of all kinds of data any more, but that only two types of data seem to be essential not to lose: 1) Business figures; 2) My Multiterm termbases.

Astrid


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 23:10
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
My 2 cents Aug 18, 2008

I agree with Katalin: I have found TermStar of Star Transit much better than Multiterm both regarding data handling (imports, exports, etc.) and actual usage during translations (my personal preference, of course).

Even conversions of Multiterm databases to TermStar pay in the long run; and can be done rather easily using MS Access without learning the painful procedures envisaged for us by Multiterm programmers.

In other words, I do not even install Multiterm.

Antonin


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Anthony Green  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:10
Italian to English
I get the impression most people use Workbench alone Aug 18, 2008

Pristine wrote:

I heard recently that some translators are using Trados without having Multiterm...

What kind of advantage is that for the translator. Does it mean he gets no glossary?

When he translates without Multiterm, does it mean that just TM lines are repeated but not individual translated terms?

Sincerely,

Pris


Hello Pristine

From reading all the postings on this and other lists, it does seem to me that many freelancers find the user-unfriendliness of MultiTerm to be such that they prefer not to spend the many hours needed to get it to work alongside Workbench. Any time a glossary change is needed, or an export required, it seems that the expense in terms of hours of effort far outweighs the benefits. That is how I feel in any case, and I regard myself as a highly competent software user. I can only imagine what a technophobe colleague must feel.
The Concordancer can to a certain extent replace the glossary management, but there are many times that I miss a decent glossary management tool.

So I have used Workbench for most of the last ten years without Multiterm, but I still very much feel that it has been a huge benefit to me as a translator, both in terms of quality and in terms of increased productivity.

Anthony


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Pristine
Local time: 16:10
English to German
TOPIC STARTER
What an interesting thread it is... Aug 19, 2008

Thank you, Anthony, Antonin, Astrid, Katalin, and Kevin for you informative remarks.

Termstar sounds interesting but the problem are the agencies. They never asked me for Termstar. But Trados all the time! This is the first word that I heard at the moment I decided to become a freelance translator. No kidding.

I work happily with Wordfast - but agencies approach me always on Trados. It comes up always again and again and again...

I have a Trados test version and extensive user manuals but still have not figured out these few things:

In Wordfast, when you want a glossary, you highlight the source and the target term and then press Control+Alt+T. Easy like apple cake.

How does this work in Trados? If I don't use Multiterm, I will not get a glossary but have to check the concordance search whenever I can't remember a certain term that I just translated?

In Wordfast, besides the repeated automatic TM paragraphs that are automatically inserted, the translated terms show up as dark blue highlighted text, which you can add then to the translation to guarantee consistent terminology. This is easy too.

But if you do not use Trados Multiterm, there is no such help as the dark blue highlighted text as in Wordfast for Trados, correct? If you use Multiterm, there is such a help as the dark blue highlighted text?

If I decide to use Multiterm, what are the commands that I have to use to build up a glossary?

And how is this with building up Trados? It says, a translator has to translate a word just once in Trados. If a translator does not use Multiterm, he or she has to translate the term always again?

I am somebody who tries to figure this out and even the Trados user video is not clear enough.

Thanks for you advice.

Best wishes,

Pristine

And a P.S. for Astrid Elke.

How do you organize your Trados and Multiterm files?

Say, company Miller mails you a translation about garden products and company Huber mails you a translation about software and Ms. Schmitt mails you her personal records, etc. By using Trados you will get TM files and Multiterm files. How do you organize them to find them again? Do you have a good system?

Thanks.

Pris


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tinageta  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:10
English to Latvian
+ ...
Totally agree with Anthony Aug 19, 2008

Anthony Green wrote:

From reading all the postings on this and other lists, it does seem to me that many freelancers find the user-unfriendliness of MultiTerm to be such that they prefer not to spend the many hours needed to get it to work alongside Workbench. Any time a glossary change is needed, or an export required, it seems that the expense in terms of hours of effort far outweighs the benefits. That is how I feel in any case, and I regard myself as a highly competent software user.

Anthony


I tried to use it, but I could not import anything. I printed the 300 pages or so manual and tried again and again, but it did not work. Life is really too short and my time is too precious, and besides I am not exactly computer challenged. I now use Anylexic and am quite happy. Sure, it is not so sophisticated, but it is user friendly and simple, and it WORKS.


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 23:10
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
Workaround Aug 19, 2008

Pristine wrote:

I work happily with Wordfast - but agencies approach me always on Trados. It comes up always again and again and again...



AFAIK, many of us use different software for processing Trados files - in my opinion, this approach is very reasonable but requires owning the full version of Trados, to be able to check the finished work. I may be overcautious here, but I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my output, as I believe most freelancers are.

Sure, it means investing money in two products, but – unfortunately - Trados prevails in the demand from agencies.

Antonin


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Gabrielle Parnes Garcia
Local time: 17:10
French to English
+ ...
No Multiterm? Get DV instead Aug 24, 2008

I just purchased TRADOS, and have never been able to use Multiterm. I am wondering why I spent so much money for a program that does not even work... For all of you who are frustrated about not having a way to save terms, etc., I'd say go out an purchase Deja Vu. It is more expensive, but it is worth the investment! You just have one single download, everything is in the single program... Bot translation memory and term memory are easy to use. You will be up and running within two hours of trying the program. They have a free 30-day demo on the site... I am so in favor not only because of how much DV has helped me, but because it would make my life so much easier if DV became the dominant CAT tool... I don't understand why people are still fighting with TRADOS....

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Mari Noller
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:10
English to Norwegian
+ ...
I use Multiterm for a few projects Aug 25, 2008

Normally I only use Multiterm for large projects (or localization projects where I've worked as the main translator for several years) where these glossaries are provided by the client (and they come with excellent instructions for how to import the glossary, bless them). I made one attempt at making a glossary once, but had to give up before I resorted to throwing the PC out the window!
Trados itself is very complicated and non user-friendly, Multiterm is even worse.

However, I'm sure it's an excellent resource for those who have some spare time to really learn it


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KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 22:10
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Trados with DVX Aug 25, 2008

Gabrielle Parnes wrote:
I just purchased TRADOS, and have never been able to use Multiterm. I am wondering why I spent so much money for a program that does not even work...


For all the criticisms I have of SDL-Trados, getting the major components to work has never been one of them. Using two different version of MultiTerm (5.5 & 7.x) has fortunately been a no-brainer, and I've used MultiTerm and its sidekick programs (Extract, Convert) to do some rather nicely compensated terminology projects. So I really do wonder at the almost universal rejection of MultiTerm among Trados users. The product is considerably less usable without it, and the thought of doing work for certain clients without access to their 40,000 entry terminologies in MultiTerm sets my teeth on edge.

However, on the whole Trados is a disjointed, buggy environment loaded with little irritations and humiliations for the user. Lack of number and date handling and the frequent impossibility of getting a target document out of a TagEditor file are just a few items on a long list. I would never recommend the product.

Gabrielle Parnes wrote:
For all of you who are frustrated about not having a way to save terms, etc., I'd say go out and purchase Deja Vu. It is more expensive, but it is worth the investment! You just have one single download, everything is in the single program... Both translation memory and term memory are easy to use. You will be up and running within two hours of trying the program. They have a free 30-day demo on the site... I am so in favor not only because of how much DV has helped me, but because it would make my life so much easier if DV became the dominant CAT tool...


DVX and MemoQ are indeed the best alternatives I see. As far as the fixation so many customers have on Trados, it doesn't really matter to me. I own a couple of Trados licenses, but the product is only used for preparing and cleaning files that actually get translated in DVX projects. There's lots of information on this site in the forums, technical articles and elsewhere (look at the How To tab on my profile) that discuss how to do "Trados" jobs with no problems in DV. A lot of these same techniques for translation and proofreading can be used with MemoQ, which also costs a bit less.


Gabrielle Parnes wrote:
I don't understand why people are still fighting with TRADOS....


Because they are sheep who love to be shorn by a large, greedy company


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