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Customising Tags in Tag Editor
Thread poster: Maurice Devroye

Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 00:25
English to French
Jan 1, 2009

Hello,

When is it possible to edit tags in TE? I need to concatenate two TUs because the two text segments I have form only one sentence. I guess changing the classification of the tags from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL would do that. However the HELP info tells me that a lot of file types are simply not customisable:


"The toolbar settings for PowerPoint, Excel, Word, Workbench RTF, PageMaker, QuarkXPress, InDesign and Ventura are predefined and are not customisable."

"When using TagEditor to translate HTML, SGML or XML documents in the context of SDL GXT, the necessary settings file is available in read only mode. As a result, it is not possible to customise the Tags toolbar."

So again: when and how do you edit tags in TE? Thanks for any advice. MD


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:25
French to Polish
+ ...
A workaround... DVX... Jan 2, 2009

Maurice Devroye wrote:

When is it possible to edit tags in TE? I need to concatenate two TUs because the two text segments I have form only one sentence. I guess changing the classification of the tags from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL would do that. However the HELP info tells me that a lot of file types are simply not customisable:


"The toolbar settings for PowerPoint, Excel, Word, Workbench RTF, PageMaker, QuarkXPress, InDesign and Ventura are predefined and are not customisable."

"When using TagEditor to translate HTML, SGML or XML documents in the context of SDL GXT, the necessary settings file is available in read only mode. As a result, it is not possible to customise the Tags toolbar."

So again: when and how do you edit tags in TE? Thanks for any advice. MD


In fact, you can't do it but you can cut and paste the second part of the source sentence in the first part (you should umprotect the doc first).
Tools > Option > Protection > Protect document
You should pay attention.

So why I love DVX.
You can join/split TTX segments as you like.

Cheers
GG


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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 00:25
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
What about Notepad? Jan 2, 2009

Thanks, GG. I have never used nor tested DVX. TE lets me cut/paste the entire sentence in the second segment but I cannot delete the external tags delimiting the first segment.

Here is another workaround: I can easily delete the entire (now empty) first TU using a very simple editor like Notepad. But doing that somehow distorts the entire file and TE does not process it as a bilingual document any more.

Any other idea/solution?


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:25
French to Polish
+ ...
Nope... Jan 2, 2009

Maurice Devroye wrote:

Thanks, GG. I have never used nor tested DVX.

It's very special but if you feel the manner it works, it's difficult to restart to use other CATs.

TE lets me cut/paste the entire sentence in the second segment but I cannot delete the external tags delimiting the first segment.

Simply, you can't.
The external tags are "sacro-saints" here.
In fact, why you insist to delete 'em?
The void segments are skipped as you translate...

Here is another workaround: I can easily delete the entire (now empty) first TU using a very simple editor like Notepad. But doing that somehow distorts the entire file and TE does not process it as a bilingual document any more.

As I said, you should pay attention if you want to modify the source.
If you modify the tags in TTX using Notepad (or similar), you may be sure the file will be damaged.
So why I like DVX 'cause it doesn't modify the TTX structure and gives me the flexibility Trados lacks here.

Any other idea/solution?

No, I think.
You can deal with internal tags but the external ones are critical for TE.

Cheers
GG


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:25
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Cut and paste is the solution here Jan 2, 2009

And Grzegorz is right - you ain|t allowed to touch external tags in Tageditor. In fact, as thez give the structure of the document, you shouldn't touch them also in other CAT programs. But cut&paste will always work.
Please observe, that when you remove text, the segment should at least contain a single space, or - depending on source format (for example PowerPoint) - a single character (or better some characters, which can be easilly identified and deleted in target format), as otherwise the "Save target as" process (or cleanup - if you still youe this old fashioned way) will not work.

Happy New Year
BR
Jerzy


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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 00:25
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
According to the TE Help Info, Jan 2, 2009

... the option to change the classification of tags is offered but "rarely needed". Here is the topic:

External tags: External tags have a black border by default (for example ). They represent structural information (for example, the Heading tags H1 and H2). These tags and their content are completely ignored during translation and can only appear outside sentences. You rarely need to move or delete external tags. If an external tag breaks sentences, change its classification to internal.

Has anybody been able to do the above and, if so, how?

Thank you and happy New Year to you, Jerzy!


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:25
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Wouldn't try that Jan 2, 2009

Maurice Devroye wrote:

... the option to change the classification of tags is offered but "rarely needed". Here is the topic:

External tags: External tags have a black border by default (for example ). They represent structural information (for example, the Heading tags H1 and H2). These tags and their content are completely ignored during translation and can only appear outside sentences. You rarely need to move or delete external tags. If an external tag breaks sentences, change its classification to internal.

Has anybody been able to do the above and, if so, how?

Not only it is much work, because you would need to recreate the complete ttx after changing this setting in order to have the tag classification changed, but I wouldn't trust it will do what you expect. In fact, in most cases segments are broken because the user put a "return" in between two lines. Now you could go and change the classification of hard return to "internal tag", but then you will have no segmentation on this where it is needed.
Use cut and paste instead, it is safe and works always and in all formats. What you achieve in target text is an empty line (in case of PPT a box with some characters within, as an empty box isn't allowed), which can easily be removed.


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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 00:25
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Case closed Jan 2, 2009

Seems like a lot of work indeed. I wil adopt yours and GG's solution.

Thanks to both for taking the time to look into this.
MD

[Edited at 2009-01-02 18:48 GMT]


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 06:25
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Major surgery required just to fix two segments!? Jan 2, 2009

I need to concatenate two TUs because the two text segments I have form only one sentence.

... you may want to look at the segmentation rules instead...

In any case the task reminded me of the question "How many Newfies (in Canada, Belgians in France etc etc) does it take to screw in a light bulb."


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 07:25
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Back to source format Jan 2, 2009

The best solution would be to go to the source format (dtp etc.) and do the change there. Chunks of text that belong together should not be separated in the first place. But in practice this problem appears very often, that's why I like to work in Word, where the translator can fix these issues on his own.

Regards
Heinrich


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