So many paragraph tags in Tageditor!
Thread poster: Dorothy Schaps

Dorothy Schaps  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:59
German to English
Mar 3, 2009

Hi everyone!

I'm attempting to translate a Word document using TE as I have often had problems with segments being stuck open and Workbench crashing when using Word.

Before starting to translate I meticulously removed all hard returns in the Word document in the hope that TE would not make two tags out of one sentence... No such luck!

I have paragraph tags by the dozen in my TE file - there is even one that cuts a quote in half! What is all that about?! And I can't even simply expand the segement becaue it won't expand beyond a paragraph tag! I just don't understand if because of course I don't have so many paragraphs in the original document so why did TE put them all there?! Is there any way to kill them all?! They are driving me nuts!

As an aside, it seems to me than neither of the Trados options is perfect - too many things can go wrong in the Word interface but in TE the process is slower as you have to always insert tages and work around split segements!

Anyway if anyone has any ideas on the paragraph tags I would be grateful!

Cheers
Dorothy


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:59
English to Czech
+ ...
Are they paragraph tags? Mar 3, 2009

Hi Dorothy,
are they really paragraph marks? Maybe a screenshot of your TTX file and one of your DOC file (hidden text enabled) would help.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:59
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Tags do not come from heaven Mar 3, 2009

and are no miracles. They are the result of source text formatting.
In a proper formatted document you have only few tags.
So what you describe seems to be a horribly formatted source document.
You say you removed paragraph breaks in Word - was it a PDF-converted document?
If yes, then first please remove all the manual formatting from it and you will not have so many tags there.


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 11:59
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
If you get a file converted from PDF Mar 3, 2009

first pre-format the source and then translate. This will save you much time.

[Редактировалось 2009-03-03 10:52 GMT]


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Dorothy Schaps  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:59
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Definitely paragraph tags and yes, it was a pdf.... Mar 3, 2009

@ Stanislav: They are definitely paragraph tags (or marks maybe...) cos they say "paragraph" in them!

@Jerzy & Sergei: Yes it was a pdf! Goddamnit! I thought that might be the problem! =(
Jerzy, what exactly do you mean by remove all the manual formatting? How do I do this? And Sergei how do I pre-format? Is that the same as what Jerzy means?!


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 11:59
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
I hate Mar 3, 2009

to when people fill the page with paragraph marks instead of using CTRL+Enter to start a new page... It is a very common disease in human beings of genus "secretaria juvenalis"

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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 10:59
German
+ ...
Paragraph marks Mar 3, 2009

Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:

to when people fill the page with paragraph marks instead of using CTRL+Enter to start a new page... It is a very common disease in human beings of genus "secretaria juvenalis"

That wouldn't cause any problems with segmentation, though. Or rather the same problems if the page break is in the middle of a segment, I guess.

And Ctrl+Enter isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, either. What's wrong with just letting the text flow from page to page as it will and keep paragraphs together that should not be split? Otherwise the page breaks often end up in places where they shouldn't be so you still have to fiddle around with the format.

A screenshot would be very helpful, Dorothy, and yes, these guys are right. Pre-formatting is a bit of a chore, though.


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Dorothy Schaps  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:59
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Screenshot...? Mar 3, 2009

Sorry I don't know how to get a screenshot in here... I press (sorry German keyboard) "Druck | S-Abf" and then press "Strg+V" but it doesn't paste... Plus, I work on two monitors so screenshots are always rather large!

[Edited at 2009-03-03 15:50 GMT]


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:59
English to Czech
+ ...
PDF hell again Mar 3, 2009

Hi Dorothy,
you may want to try the following, in case the document is not heavily formatted.
1. Make a backup copy of the original DOC;
2. Open the original DOC;
3. Select all text (CTRL+A) and copy-paste (CTRL+C > CTRL+V) it into the Notepad;
4. Create a new document in Word;
5. Copy-paste the text from the Notepad into Word again.
6. Check the document for any excessive hard returns.

CAUTION: ALL FORMATTING (bold, italics, colours etc.) WILL BE LOST!!!


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:59
English to Czech
+ ...
Just to bring you more headaches Mar 3, 2009

Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:
to when people fill the page with paragraph marks instead of using CTRL+Enter to start a new page... It is a very common disease in human beings of genus "secretaria juvenalis"


CTRL+Enter can cause you problems at the export from TagEditor in turn. And yes, there are sometimes problems even if the page break is preceeded by a number of paragraph marks. The headache is Word itself.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:59
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
You can't paste screenshots in this forum Mar 3, 2009

To put it short: you need a webspace where you can upload your screen shot (make it smaller before you upload). Then insert a link here in forum.
Use the bb-code, as it is very easy. A short description may be found beneath this very window, in which you are writing your posting to reply here.
Just click on the red text saying "BBcode".

To remove all manual formatting:
Open the Word document, save it under a different name.
Press CTRL+A to select the whole text. Now press CTRL+SPACE BAR.
This removes all manual formatting, leaving just the formatting done by styles.
But if your document is a converted PDF and you have the PDF yourself, redo the conversion. But instead of letting the machine do all the formatting for you, just let it only save the text WITHOUT formatting and then format the document on your own.
Maybe you happen to come to Macedonia for the ProZ International Conference there?
Quite probably there will again be a PDF2Word session


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:59
English to Czech
+ ...
Possible, but... Mar 3, 2009

...I don't think this will remove the problem entirely. PDF > DOC conversion can amend the document with tens of different styles. That's why I proposed moving the text to the Notepad first and copy-pasting it back into Word from there. Moreover, Dorothy explicitly said that she had removed all excessive paragraphs from her document before opening it in TagEditor. That's why I think a proper "tidying up" is necessary here.

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So many paragraph tags in Tageditor!

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