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Question: How can I find repetitions in new texts...
Thread poster: Dusica Cook

Dusica Cook  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:26
English to Bosnian
+ ...
Apr 4, 2009

Dear colleagues,

I have a huge favour to ask from you… It is about Trados, Workbench and a very interesting project I am involved in.

I am currently translating a study which will be followed by several other studies. The first one is quite difficult and very large and it is the biggest one. The remaining studies will have some parts that will be repetitions from this first study.

Now, the client knows that and they asked me to invoice them with 25% of the unit price for the amount of repetitions. BUT! I don’t know how to find that out through the Workbench.

I am not sure if I am being very clear (I am known for not really knowing how to ask a question).

I will be using the same TM for the whole job and I am wondering if there is a possibility to get the analysis from the Workbench (or somehow else) on what amount of text is completely new and what is the amount of repetitions in comparison to what is already in the TM.

I hope you can help me!

Thanks a lot!

D


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Boris Kimel  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 11:26
English to Russian
+ ...
Tools - > Analyze... Apr 4, 2009

is the required function. You can read the manual too. A big project is worth it.

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Dusica Cook  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:26
English to Bosnian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
why so harsh?! Apr 4, 2009

Boris Kimel wrote:
is the required function. You can read the manual too. A big project is worth it.


sorry if my question has annoyed you. it was not my intention.

i find the manual far to complicated for me to undestand (i was even unable to use trados following the manual until i got the “instructions for idiots” from one of the proZ.com colleagues.) i hoped i could ask again!


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:26
English to German
+ ...
Aw, Dusica - Boris' answer wasn't harsh at all Apr 4, 2009

Sorry, if you perceived it as such.

A question, though:

If the client is already aware of repetitions, how come that you have to analyze the text yourself again? And why would you like to give discounts for repetitions in the first place if you have to spend time to find them before the job started?


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Dusica Cook  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:26
English to Bosnian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Client, me, repetitions... Apr 4, 2009

sorry if i understood boris' answer as harsh, i apologise!

as for the client and the repetitions… as i said, these are studies and they are for several very similar locations (environment is the topic)… general information is almost the same for all of them. also some technical information is the same… now, the client has no idea about trados, its existence or what it does and he thinks it is going to be "copy paste" for me from the previous translations...

so… as i translate the things i will be able to spot those parts of the text and will be able to “calculate” them manually (i.e. to take them out of the total calculation), but i believe there is a possibility to do that automatically through trados, based on the TM i have already built for the given job (each study will add some new text that might appear in the next one).


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:26
English to German
+ ...
Ah, I see! This sounds reasonable. Apr 5, 2009

Don't forget to give discounts to a certain degree only - you have spent so much time already on organizing your project, including consulting the forum and such.

25% is too less. You still have to compare each an every paragraph instead of copying it blindly. I recently translated a 160 page EU study and noticed mistakes made by the author during the course of copying and pasting his own text. I didn't allow any discounts and the client was beyond happy that I double-checked the source text.


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Dusica Cook  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:26
English to Bosnian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks... Apr 5, 2009

i agree... still, i have agreed to this as this might be a long time project... anyhow... surely, if there are significant mistakes in the c/p i will explain and charge differently...

now, for the trados identification of these repetitions... does anyone know if this can be done and if anyone can explain it to me in very simple terms, because i am really a total idiot when it comes to this fantastic programme...

i would like to see the possibility of trados recognising the parts of a new document he already has as a 100% match in the TM and giving me info of how many of those are in the total new document.

thanks


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:26
English to German
+ ...
I am a complete moron in terms of Trados & Co. Apr 5, 2009

I only own light versions of various CAT tools and I only work with such files if they come prepared by the client. However, I simply use the good old tool "Compare files" in Word: Whatever text is not marked in color is a 100% match and can be copied and pasted as is. Takes only a few seconds - done.

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tvtruc
Vietnam
Local time: 15:26
English to Vietnamese
Analyse it Apr 5, 2009

Boris has already answer your question and I just repeat his answer here:

On Workbench, select Tools > Analyse. An Analyse Files dialog box will appear. Click Add... to add the files you want to analyse, then click Analyse. You will get results like this:

Match Types Segments Words Percent Placeables
Context TM 0 0 0 0
Repetitions 1 8 0 3
100% 1,398 14,311 77 1,562
95% - 99% 76 1,118 6 229
85% - 94% 90 1,190 6 371
75% - 84% 46 519 3 145
50% - 74% 23 219 1 124
No Match 88 1,146 7 251
Total 1,722 18,511 100 2,685

In this case number of Repetitions words is 8.


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 09:26
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Pretranslate (answer II below) is what you are thinking about Apr 5, 2009

. now, for the trados identification of these repetitions... does anyone know if this can be done and if anyone can explain it to me in very simple terms, because i am really a total idiot when it comes to this fantastic programme...


In simple terms:
Here is the situation: there's the original sentence(or segment, to be more concise), saying "Location of the spill". How to handle now all the repetitions of this sentence?

Answer I - you have no translation memory yet: you start translating the text using TRADOS and translate this sentence the first time around. The next and the following times TRADOS (or any other decent CAT for that matter) will recognize the text and suggest it to you for insertion.

Answer II -you already have accumulated some contents in the TM you are using: To avoid confirming the suggested translations, you go to TWB, as suggested in previous posts, but select Translate instead of Analyze: the passing contents of the Translation Memory will flow into the text (or texts - you can select all your source files for instance).

Note that after doing the first translation in answer I you can already try the Answer II suggestion.

I can just say that your texts seem to be a perfect example for what Computer Aided Translation tools are good for.

Pozdrave za BiH

vito


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 10:26
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Repetitions are nice Apr 5, 2009

In a large project you'll get a lot of 90-98% matches where the author just corrected spelling mistakes, which otherwise would be 100% matches. And there are usually a lot of segmentations where you just have to expend or shrink the segment in order to get a perfect match.
Regards
Heinrich


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Dusica Cook  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:26
English to Bosnian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thank you all, very, very much! Apr 5, 2009

I think I will now be able to do this, but will be free to ask additional questions and I hope you will help again if needed
The new study is to arrive around 15 April, so that is when I will be able to test the knowledge I acquired from you!

Thanks again!


Pozdravi za Sloveniju


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Marina Soldati  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:26
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Repetitions and 100% matches Apr 5, 2009

Hi Dusica,

There´s a difference between repetitions and 100% matches, as defined in Trados documentation.

Repetitions: repeated segments within the analysed text, which have NO corresponding translation in the TM.

100% matches: segments that have a correspoding translation in the TM.


So, if you have agreed to give a discount on the text that repeats in the various stages of the project, you´ll have to give that discount on the amount of words in 100% matches that the analysis shows, and not on the Repetitions, because the words in Repetitions row has no correspoding translation in the TM, i.e. they were not included in previous files. These are segments that appear more than once in the new files.

The segments you have translated in previous files of the same project will have their corresponding translation in the TM, and, in the analysis, will be included in the 100% match row.

I hope my English is clear enough, please refer to your documentation, Translator´s Workbench User Guide, page 8-6 Analysing documents.

Regards,
Marina


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Attila Piróth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:26
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Tutorials Apr 6, 2009

Hi Dusica,

The solutions proposed by our colleagues will work and save you time. But why not save even more time? Trados (or any other CAT tool) offers a lot of other useful functions, ranging from handling terminology (using Multiterm in the case of Trados) and concordance search through aligning legacy material (with WinAlign) to quality check (in Tageditor), which helps to ensure a higher level of consistency. Trados offers quite a lot of value for the money you invested. If the files arrive only next week, I would strongly suggest that you familiarize yourself with some useful functions of Trados. The tutorials (available from the SDL 200X Freelance folder [where X is 6, 7, or 8, depending on your Trados version]) present these functions in a very clear way, and serve as a great starting point. This investment of time will pay off excellently in the long run.

Get some hands-on experience before you have to start the project: this way you will have enough time to learn how to sort out problems (e.g., mixed-up formatting), which can be extremely stressing if you have to work with a tight deadline using a program for the first time. Keep some time for browsing the forums for troubleshooting tips and best practices.

Kind regards,
Attila


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