I use Wordfast on nearly every project - but nobody asks me for fuzzy discounts. I have the impression that the type of agencies that try to extract these discounts are only interested in Trados users. Wordfast seems to have the same effect as a string of garlic - it keeps the vampires away.
Not always. I use Wordfast for an agency that applies reduced rates to matches. Every project comes with a big TM. Sometimes most of the project are 100% matches. Even with a discount it's a good deal as I barely have to scan through the 100% matches (they're high quality translations).
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Stanislav Pokorny Czech Republic Local time: 03:47 Member (2009) English to Czech + ...
Yep...
Nov 11, 2009
It looks like PM's just don't bother to even ask what e.g. .TMX files are, when it is ssoooooo convenient to handle .TMW and the like.
Hmm, and do they actually know what TMX is? In my experience, only few PMs are technically competent. If they send an exchange format at all, it's usually the obsolete TXT.
Sorry for confirming John's experience, but no agency has ever asked me for FMD's when I said/wrote the "garlimagical" word Wordfast or, more recently, Heartsome. How come?
You don't have to be sorry at all. How come? You work for different agencies than I do. Quite simple. And I'm afraid they simply don't have WF or HS to run analyses. Pure speculations though.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
When somebody asked me for discounts I asked for advance)
(un?)fortunately, only a few PMs are technically competent.
But what discounts have to do with TM file type, I wonder?
Also I don't find a simple txt 'obsolete'. What is 'obsolete' for you?
Yes, it' is the simples (=the easiest) format, yet very modern IMO: very good compression ratio, very common (WF? DVX? TRADOS? BLAh-BLAh? It doesn't matter until it's txt), very easy (no extra metadata, easy to find-replace etc).
Once I had troubles converting from one 'ultramodern' format to the previous version first and then to another 'modern' format because a dozen of useless downloaded tools didn't want to work with that version/direction...
Over three hours spent, a hundred lost tags and no decent result.
I was really happy when I later got a zipped txt (400KB) which I set as a background TM (~5MB) and that's all.
Experience differs though)
[Редактировалось 2009-11-12 12:53 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Why discounts (or reductions or donations or whatever you want to call them)?
Nov 12, 2009
/rant_on
You can add my voice to the choir asking why there should even be discounts (or reductions or donations or whatever you want to call them) for using new technologies, like CAT-tools:
I don't charge less because I use a computer (my father used to dictate his translations and my mother would type them);
I don't charge less because my DSL connection is quicker than dial-up, which is quicker than the post office;
I don't charge less because I use a spellchecker instead of paper dictionaries;
I don't charge less because I know how to copy&paste and can use the search function;
I don't charge less because I know more about the subject and can thus translate more quickly and more precisely.
And why should I? I learned, bought, and invested in all of that not so that others can earn more, but rather so that I can earn more (per hour of work I put into it). That is, after all, what investments are all about.
Unless the agencies want to start paying for all or even just part of these investments, i.e., for my schooling, equipment, and facilities, then they should just be happy that I offer all this service at no extra cost to them!
/rant_off
My advice: Don't perpetuate this ridiculous practice.
[Edited at 2009-11-12 14:05 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
philgoddard United States Local time: 20:47 German to English + ...
Well said, Derek!
Nov 12, 2009
I couldn't agree more.
That's also the first time I've heard of a translator following in his father's footsteps.
[Edited at 2009-11-12 20:56 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Laurent KRAULAND France Local time: 03:47 Member (2007) French to German + ...
OT: 2nd time for me
Nov 13, 2009
philgoddard wrote:
I couldn't agree more.
That's also the first time I've heard of a translator following in his father's footsteps.
Start of OT
Hi Phil,
I actually know of another colleague whose father and uncle were translators. Hints: American, great writer, has some of his articles published on Accurapid.
As per Derek's post, I am tempted to give the link to it to some outsourcers coming with the too-well-known Trados rebates... End of OT
[Edited at 2009-11-13 06:39 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
You can add my voice to the choir asking why there should even be discounts (or reductions or donations or whatever you want to call them) for using new technologies, like CAT-tools:
I don't charge less because I use a computer (my father used to dictate his translations and my mother would type them);
I don't charge less because my DSL connection is quicker than dial-up, which is quicker than the post office;
I don't charge less because I use a spellchecker instead of paper dictionaries;
I don't charge less because I know how to copy&paste and can use the search function;
I don't charge less because I know more about the subject and can thus translate more quickly and more precisely.
And why should I? I learned, bought, and invested in all of that not so that others can earn more, but rather so that I can earn more (per hour of work I put into it). That is, after all, what investments are all about.
Unless the agencies want to start paying for all or even just part of these investments, i.e., for my schooling, equipment, and facilities, then they should just be happy that I offer all this service at no extra cost to them!
/rant_off
My advice: Don't perpetuate this ridiculous practice.
[Edited at 2009-11-12 14:05 GMT]
There actually is one reason why we charge less for matches.
Because we are working in a market. If an outsourcer wants a discount, you can take it or leave it. If you're loaded with work at good rates and refuse to give discounts for matches, good for you.
However, if it wasn't for this ridiculous practice, so if we got full rates for a text that is 100% matched with a TM supplied by the outsourcer (and thus only requires review), a lot more people would be interested in a cushy job like that, so rates would go down. As it happens in a marketplace sometimes.
Following your logic, it is ridiculous practice to demand less for verification than for an original translation.
If the matches are with my own, private TM, that's obviously a different story of leveraging your own past work. But then the outsourcer doesn't even know the match percentages.
[Edited at 2009-11-13 13:03 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-11-13 13:04 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Joel Earnest Sweden Local time: 03:47 Swedish to English
Swedish agency market
Nov 14, 2009
With the agencies I work for in Sweden and the technical texts I typically translate, CAT tools are required, and have been for five years or more. In fact my first Trados license was paid for by an early adopter agency, about ten years ago.
I suppose you could compare it to the building trade--power tools are required.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
If an outsourcer wants a discount, you can take it or leave it.
Well, sure. My advice is clearly to leave it.
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
However, if it wasn't for this ridiculous practice, so if we got full rates for a text that is 100% matched with a TM supplied by the outsourcer (and thus only requires review), a lot more people would be interested in a cushy job like that, so rates would go down.
If a text matches 100% with a previous text, then they obviously don't need a translator--a copy machine would be quicker (and cheaper).
Joke aside, just because a job is popular (for the possibility of earning more money), doesn't automatically mean that the pay for that job will go down. Translating is not exactly something that anyone with just an interest in it can do.
Joel Earnest wrote:
I suppose you could compare it to the building trade--power tools are required.
I certainly have nothing against CAT tools; they should increase my productivity and hence my income (as with all the other investments I make). I have something against this automatic assumption that an agency--who is, after all, just a middleman--is entitled to the extra profit stemming from an expensive investment that I have (as you say) to make.
I don't work in construction, but I assume that those working in the building trade do not get paid less because they invest in expensive power tools, or even because they have to have them. In fact, I'd wager that they are able to earn more than those working with their bare hands.
Why shouldn't the same apply to translators? After all, the agency isn't automatically entitled to a discount when I purchase an expensive dictionary, extra training, or any other tools of our trade. If a client wants me to use CAT tools or a specific file format (like .doc or .pdf), then that is fine--I'm happy to oblige. But I don't see why I should be expected to give a discount for doing so.
Happy translating (and negotiating)!
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Laurent KRAULAND France Local time: 03:47 Member (2007) French to German + ...
Automatic assumptions
Nov 15, 2009
Derek Gill Franßen wrote:
I certainly have nothing against CAT tools; they should increase my productivity and hence my income (as with all the other investments I make). I have something against this automatic assumption that an agency--who is, after all, just a middleman--is entitled to the extra profit stemming from an expensive investment that I have (as you say) to make.
This covers the point clearly enough. Widespread (?) practices do not convey any rights. And I don't see any personal obligation on my side to paye.g. for the middleman's unwillingness / inability / whatever to resell translations at a higher price than they actually do.
[Edited at 2009-11-15 07:02 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
I couldn't agree more. It's not about rights. It's about whether or not some one else will take the job - and whether or not somebody else will pay you full rates.
I don't think it makes sense to morally condemn or justify market practices of two independent businesses, such as the agency and yourself or another translator. The division of profit margins depends on supply and demand, point. You may feel coerced to share "your" profit with the agency but, aside from the fact that it's the agency that supplied you with the TM for the project, it's all about other translators being as modern as you are - or not.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Laurent KRAULAND France Local time: 03:47 Member (2007) French to German + ...
So far...
Nov 15, 2009
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
I don't think it makes sense to morally condemn or justify market practices of two independent businesses, such as the agency and yourself or another translator. The division of profit margins depends on supply and demand, point. You may feel coerced to share "your" profit with the agency but, aside from the fact that it's the agency that supplied you with the TM for the project, it's all about other translators being as modern as you are - or not.
No agency has ever shared their TM's for me to work with, as the translations I deal with are rarely for the same client and rarely repetitive enough to "justify" sliding scale discounts. And having outsourcers asking for those discounts even if the text is less than 1,000 words long (repetitions counted in words and not in sentences) is laughable at best. And the question about the IP of the TM's is still under discussion at the moment, although French legislation (the one applicable in my case) favours an interpretation in which the translator's IP doesn't cease when the translation is completed and the TM sent to the outsourcer.
As I said elsewhere,
AFAIAC, I will gladly let any of my competitors translate any volume they want at any price they accept and with the same quality as mine. This is clearly not my problem. But I prefer to work less and to translate e.g. press releases at XXX euros ex VAT per word (a rather good deal when compared to the rates offered by some agencies) or to do adaptations of my translations as an after-sales service (price per word: between XXX and XXX euros ex VAT).
So yes, I follow Derek's opinion and prefer to leave it:
Derek Gill Franßen wrote:
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
If an outsourcer wants a discount, you can take it or leave it.
Well, sure. My advice is clearly to leave it.
[Edited at 2009-11-15 13:54 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
John Fossey Canada Local time: 21:47 Member (2008) French to English
Occasionally accept
Nov 16, 2009
I have on occasion accepted fuzzy discounts. I have tried to negotiate them upwards, sometimes successful, sometimes not.
Mostly I have found their calculations to be rubbish, but occasionally, such as when translating tables or technical documents with lots of repeated simple phrases, they were actually justified.
When quoting to an agency that asks for fuzzy discounts I do quote some prices, generally quite a bit higher than what most agencies want, but I explain that they are based on my actual analysis of time saved. Then the final killer is when I give them a WORDFAST analysis of fuzzy breakdown. Mostly they don't know that Wordfast gives fuzzy breakdowns!
I've found that agencies in one category are fairly reasonable and will negotiate. Another type of agency states "We don't pay for repeat translations", as if the fact that they are repeats means they somehow magically appear in the translation without any work, checking, adjusting, formatting, etc. My response to that is, fine, if you don't pay for them you don't get them either - I don't think I've ever done one of those jobs.
Strangely enough, the agencies that want the highest fuzzy match discounts also seem to pay the slowest; is there a connection here?
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
anisco Germany Local time: 03:47 English to German + ...
Well said, Derek!
Nov 16, 2009
Derek Gill Franßen wrote:
I don't charge less because I use a computer;
I don't charge less because my DSL connection is quicker than dial-up, which is quicker than the post office;
I don't charge less because I use a spellchecker instead of paper dictionaries;
I don't charge less because I know how to copy&paste and can use the search function;
I don't charge less because I know more about the subject and can thus translate more quickly and more precisely.
My advice: Don't perpetuate this ridiculous practice.
memoQ translator pro is the premium product for professionals. It is Kilgray's best-selling tool among freelance translators: you get all the functionality available in memoQ in your local environment plus the ability to work on remote servers.
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro 3.0 through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
The translation workplace 
How come? You work for different agencies than I do. Quite simple. And I'm afraid they simply don't have WF or HS to run analyses. Pure speculations though.
Translation news related to SDL Trados