| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Automatic concordance lookup in Trados Studio 2009 FL Thread poster: Maciej Pomorski
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Maciej Pomorski 
Poland
Local time: 18:05
Member (2005)
German to Polish
+ ...
Hello everyone,
does Trados Studio 2009 FL have an equivalent of the option "Start concordance search if no segment match is found" which was very useful in Trados 2007 and the previous versions, or do I have to look up the concordance manually every time?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Maciej.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 18:05
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| No such feature | Mar 24, 2010 |
Due to a very flexible multi-TM setup I also must admit, that I do not see any use of this setting here.
In fact I also never used that in T2007 - it was making me always much slower than helping me.
| | | | Maciej Pomorski
Poland
Local time: 18:05
Member (2005)
German to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | For me, it was quite useful | Mar 25, 2010 |
I don't quite understand why this setting isn't available here. It is quite useful when I'm working with a TM created by somebody else and it enables me to see matches of terms in the TM without having to use the manual concordance search each time. Please notice that if you don't look up terms manually, the concordance window in Trados Studio is the only one which is empty and unused, which for me is wasting of screen space
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 18:05
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| By default concordance window is not visible in Studio | Mar 25, 2010 |
And you can setup your TM and as many other TMs as you wish there.
In such case when no match in your TM is found you will be presented matches from other TMs - which will completly replace the concordance search you mention.
You can setup TMs also for concordance lookups only, if you wish.
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Mushu
Local time: 19:05
Bulgarian to French
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| It was a useful feature for me too - its lack made me go back to Trados 2007 | Mar 25, 2010 |
"Start concordance search if no matches found" is not equal to "go get matches in other TMs".
It is a very useful and continually used feature for me too. Indeed, usually I don't have that much matches in my TM (10 to 12 % on average in the best case), but I do have to achieve consistency of terms and "standard" phrases through the document, and this is why I use this feature all the time.
Actually, when I found out that the feature was no longer available in Studio [an... See more "Start concordance search if no matches found" is not equal to "go get matches in other TMs".
It is a very useful and continually used feature for me too. Indeed, usually I don't have that much matches in my TM (10 to 12 % on average in the best case), but I do have to achieve consistency of terms and "standard" phrases through the document, and this is why I use this feature all the time.
Actually, when I found out that the feature was no longer available in Studio [and it was not easy to find it out, as the consultants in the SDL booth just managed to avoid a straight answer to a straight question], I just shut off Studio and went back to Trados 2007. I can't and don't want to waste time searching for concordance every term in my segment. It is a pity, yes, and wasted money, and several cool new features unused. But I really need this one.
It is just my personal experience, and I think it would be interesting if more colleagues would share theirs, just to see whether it really is such a popular feature or rather not... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Maciej Pomorski
Poland
Local time: 18:05
Member (2005)
German to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I got back to Trados 2007, too | Mar 25, 2010 |
I feel the same - one reason is the missing automatic concordance, the other one is the impossibility to have both Multiterm 2007 and 2009 installed at the same time (the service packs that were supposed to solve this problem didn't help in my case).
And I think it was really a bad idea from SDL to create a new software which is only partly compatible with it's old version, without assuring that they can be installed together on the same PC. I now use Trados Studio 2009 only for re... See more I feel the same - one reason is the missing automatic concordance, the other one is the impossibility to have both Multiterm 2007 and 2009 installed at the same time (the service packs that were supposed to solve this problem didn't help in my case).
And I think it was really a bad idea from SDL to create a new software which is only partly compatible with it's old version, without assuring that they can be installed together on the same PC. I now use Trados Studio 2009 only for reviewing big, repetitive and multi-file projects translated with Trados 2007 (reviewing works indeed much quicker there) but I wouldn't spend my money on it if I knew the errors and limitations of the 2009 version.
[Zmieniono 2010-03-25 11:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Hi,
I know that concordance is different, and also that not everyone uses AutoSuggest yet. But there is a different way of working with Studio that legacy users cannot experience. The AutoSuggest feature uses subsegment matching as you type so in effect is carrying out a concordance all the time as you work and presenting the results as you work along with terminology and autotext results.
I don't know if this is anything you have tried, but perhaps it would be worth ... See more Hi,
I know that concordance is different, and also that not everyone uses AutoSuggest yet. But there is a different way of working with Studio that legacy users cannot experience. The AutoSuggest feature uses subsegment matching as you type so in effect is carrying out a concordance all the time as you work and presenting the results as you work along with terminology and autotext results.
I don't know if this is anything you have tried, but perhaps it would be worth taking a look? As this was not mentioned I hope this is a useful addition to the conversation.
Regards
Paul ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 18:05
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | Subsegmenting | Mar 25, 2010 |
I am not using SDL Studio actively yet, so I would like to clear this up.
Let's assume we have two segments:
For further information, refer to Chapter 4. Operation and maintenance.
and
Chapter 4. Operation and maintenance.
When I translate the first segment and then encounter the second one, does Trados Studio indicate in any way that such sequence has occurred and provides the given segment pair, or not? I do not see how Au... See more I am not using SDL Studio actively yet, so I would like to clear this up.
Let's assume we have two segments:
For further information, refer to Chapter 4. Operation and maintenance.
and
Chapter 4. Operation and maintenance.
When I translate the first segment and then encounter the second one, does Trados Studio indicate in any way that such sequence has occurred and provides the given segment pair, or not? I do not see how AutoSuggest could help here, as it is not updated dynamically? ▲ Collapse
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| Clarification | Mar 25, 2010 |
Hi Jabberwock,
I imagine in this instance, if you set the match value low enough that Studio might pick it up in the TM as a low match. Probably your example was just a poor one and this is not what you really meant.
If the information was already in the TM that was used to create the ASD then, yes, it would probably pick it up. If this was the first time you had used this phrase in the active document, then no, you would have to use the concordance search for this.... See more Hi Jabberwock,
I imagine in this instance, if you set the match value low enough that Studio might pick it up in the TM as a low match. Probably your example was just a poor one and this is not what you really meant.
If the information was already in the TM that was used to create the ASD then, yes, it would probably pick it up. If this was the first time you had used this phrase in the active document, then no, you would have to use the concordance search for this.
I think this is pretty clear already now, but I just wanted to add this to the discussion because whilst we have not implemented an automatic concordance lookup this feature is something that can be a useful addition to finding subsegment matches from your existing assets. So far I don't think the discussion was this specific, so good that you brought this up.
Regards
Paul ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 18:05
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER
I think the example was quite good - the strongest point of the autoconcordance feature was not really automatic reuse of subsegments (AutoSuggest is probably much better for this purpose), but assurance that some infrequent but identical portions are actually rendered the same (if that is necessary, of course).
Another benefit of autoconcordance was that it allowed to immediately spot segments which were joined/split differently in the TM and the source text.
Anyway, t... See more I think the example was quite good - the strongest point of the autoconcordance feature was not really automatic reuse of subsegments (AutoSuggest is probably much better for this purpose), but assurance that some infrequent but identical portions are actually rendered the same (if that is necessary, of course).
Another benefit of autoconcordance was that it allowed to immediately spot segments which were joined/split differently in the TM and the source text.
Anyway, thank you for the detailed explanations! Such insights into internal workings of different tools are quite useful... For tinkerers, at least ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrei Vybornov
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:05
English to Russian
+ ...
| Concordance in Studio is too slow to be automated | Mar 26, 2010 |
Very interesting discussion. I would like to see this feature in Studio too. Paul is right, that AutoSuggest may substitute it in a way, but Jabberwock is right too, AS dictionaries do not update on the fly.
I doubt though that SDL would implement this feature any time soon even if we all start to scream for it in one voice. Did you try manual concordance in Studio? It takes ages. Imagine what would happen if you automate it!
I would be happy if SDL people just fix this speed proble... See more Very interesting discussion. I would like to see this feature in Studio too. Paul is right, that AutoSuggest may substitute it in a way, but Jabberwock is right too, AS dictionaries do not update on the fly.
I doubt though that SDL would implement this feature any time soon even if we all start to scream for it in one voice. Did you try manual concordance in Studio? It takes ages. Imagine what would happen if you automate it!
I would be happy if SDL people just fix this speed problem. Oh, and the form in which the results are presented too! Horrible.
Regards,
Andrei ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Using AutoSuggest | Mar 26, 2010 |
Hi all,
I discussed this with Daniel Brockman (Studio Product Manager) today and he had a few interesting things he asked me to share.
- Jabberwock's example is ideal for AutoSuggest: In German you would type "K" and it would show "Kapitel". Then you would type "B" and it would most certainly show "Bedienung und Wartung" (if this has been used in the TM before a certain number of times - this is a prerequisite but these a
... See more Hi all,
I discussed this with Daniel Brockman (Studio Product Manager) today and he had a few interesting things he asked me to share.
- Jabberwock's example is ideal for AutoSuggest: In German you would type "K" and it would show "Kapitel". Then you would type "B" and it would most certainly show "Bedienung und Wartung" (if this has been used in the TM before a certain number of times - this is a prerequisite but these are so frequent words that this would almost certainly be the case - and good to remember that AutoSuggest is at its best when it comes to frequent words). And it does not stop there - in the first part you would get "W" -> "Weitere Informationen finden Sie in" or similar. This is the beauty of AutoSuggest which might only be discussed theoretically in this thread if you are not using it.
- Having said this it does not mean that we could not re-add the Autoconcordance feature at some point - you should log it as an idea. It would be interesting to see what you think once you do try AutoSuggest and have used it for a week or two. One of the reasons for leaving AutoConcordance out so far was the improved results we saw with the AutoSuggest Feature, and this was confirmed by many of our Beta Testers, and now users who work with this on a daily basis.
- On concordance being slow - it would be interesting to see if this was also the case without character-based concordance. How big was the TM?
Regards
Paul ▲ Collapse
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Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 18:05
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | Well, not really... | Mar 26, 2010 |
SDL Support wrote:
Jabberwock's example is ideal for AutoSuggest
Well, I guess then the example should say:
"Chapter 4. Chapter titles you do not find that often"
The point being was that AutoSuggest would fail in this case exactly because:
1. The phrase would be repeated just a few times, so it might not be picked up automatically
2. The reference would be most likely in the same document, but not somewhere else, so it would not be recognized by AutoSuggest at all (unless you compile AS while working on the document, which I suppose does not make much sense)
I do not intend to pick on AutoSuggest, which I am sure is a great feature, but rather to show that in such cases it would be nicely supplemented by autoconcordance.
Besides, it would serve another purpose (as it did in 2007) - as a "memory refresher" or "repetition indicator". After all, in order for AS to kick in you have to start the phrase with the right letter sequence, so you either have to remember your old phrase (in case you did it yourself) or to know it from manual concordance (in case you have been provided TM). The brilliance of autoconcordance is the fact that it highlights the subsegment repetitions while you might not realize they actually were repetitions.
| | | | Maciej Pomorski
Poland
Local time: 18:05
Member (2005)
German to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you a lot for your help, I will try out the Autosuggest feature to find out if it can replace the automatic concordance.
| | | | | Just little ol' me! | Mar 31, 2010 |
Interesting thread that I just googled onto. It's sad that this feature is missing.
Btw, in my recent upgrade to 2009, which a client of mine insisted I do, Concordance says that I do not even have a TM open when I press F3, although of course I do, how else could I be working already with translation alignment.
Any remedy for this?
PS. Does Trados come in a German interface. I have a feeling that what often makes Trados commands and instructions so opaque c... See more Interesting thread that I just googled onto. It's sad that this feature is missing.
Btw, in my recent upgrade to 2009, which a client of mine insisted I do, Concordance says that I do not even have a TM open when I press F3, although of course I do, how else could I be working already with translation alignment.
Any remedy for this?
PS. Does Trados come in a German interface. I have a feeling that what often makes Trados commands and instructions so opaque could be because they were transfered from original German. ▲ Collapse
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