Have been asked to quote with a 'Trados breakdown'? What is meant?
Thread poster: Terese Whitty

Terese Whitty
United States
Local time: 09:00
Member (2004)
English to Swedish
Mar 30, 2004

Hi!
I am very new with Trados. I have been offered to bid on a project and they want my rate, including Trados breakdown. What do they mean by that? Thank you in advance for a rapid response.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:00
English to German
+ ...
Weighted charges for match percentages Mar 30, 2004

Hi Terese,
What they ask for is a reduced weighting depending on match percentages analysed against a reference TM delivered by your client.

You will find quite a few threads on this subject if you search for "fuzzy match".

You should be aware of the pitfalls in this - whether or not a weighted charging scheme is fair depends on a number of factors, including the quality of the delivered TM, as well as the structure and format of the document.

To be very honest, I doubt if it's a wise move to agree to such a scheme before you have acquired a thorough understanding of the dynamics involved. In my experience, one can use weighted charging schemes to generate profitable business, provided that you're able to gauge the impact.

Best regards, Ralf


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Matt Baird
Germany
Local time: 17:00
German to English
Thanks Ralf Mar 31, 2004

You should be aware of the pitfalls in this - whether or not a weighted charging scheme is fair depends on a number of factors, including the quality of the delivered TM, as well as the structure and format of the document.

To be very honest, I doubt if it's a wise move to agree to such a scheme before you have acquired a thorough understanding of the dynamics involved. In my experience, one can use weighted charging schemes to generate profitable business, provided that you're able to gauge the impact.

Hi Ralf,
Thanks for the tip to look for threads on "fuzzy matches". I just checked it out and there is a lot of useful information. I knew what was meant by Trados breakdown but had not yet done the research or asked how most translators handle such a situation. I agree that it may seem logical initially, but in the end the fuzzy matches may end up becoming more work than new segments.
Anyway, thanks again for the useful info.
Have a good one!

Best,
Matt


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:30
English to Tamil
+ ...
Am I being too simple? Apr 1, 2004

My mind has sort of gone dizzy
With too much talk of match fuzzy
Are you sure the 100% repetitions
Are that without any restrictions?

I don't know nor do I break my head
Too much over that lest the job drop dead
It's one reason why I don't fancy Trados
Nor deja vu nor many others like those

Tell the client beforehand all these things
Lest you should end up with the clippings
Of your possible and rightful earnings
Giving you in the end very bad mornings

You didn't invest in Trados and similar
Only to see your cents and Euros disappear
In the exercise of hypothetical matches
Which they are not in many of the cases.

My first attempt at a verse or something like that!
Regards,
N.Raghavan


[Edited at 2004-04-01 15:09]


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doralice  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Portuguese
fuzzy matches /bad turn Jul 7, 2015

I've just been asked by an outsourcer to send him my rates and trados breakdown.
This was a first, so I tryed to find out what's a trados breakdown other than how I feel after 14 hours working non-stop.

After reading every advice about it, I leave here my contribution to help other newcomers to this brave new world of post-editing, machine translation and fuzzy matches.

On quoting matches that are fuzzy
Try not to get a bit too buzzy!
These things are made to be confuse
And make a girl resort to booze
When all the cash she meant to earn
Becomes a matter of concern
Making the poor thing too late learn
She’s reached the point of no return.

Good translations and good luck!

Doralice






[Edited at 2015-07-07 13:49 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-07-07 16:26 GMT]


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LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:00
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
It means that you are being asked to Jul 7, 2015

sacrifice all the benefits gained from the expense and hassle of using a CAT tool while the agency will probably charge the client full rate for everything (including all those repetitions we give away for free).

It's one of the biggest scams to hit the translation industry on par with post-editing, 60-day payments and the elimination of rush rates and minimum fees.



Not to mention that you can always tell when a document was translated with a CAT tool because the style is so incredibly dry, dull and lifeless. A language is a living, breathing and constantly-evolving entity with its own way and order of presenting information and transitioning from one topic to another. With a CAT tool, you robotically match sentence to sentence and paragraph to paragraph creating an endless and bland mush of fuzzy words that strip the language of its unique flavor and character. Creativity is verboten lest your segment fail to match a future document. It's the future savings that's important not the readers of the present. Then you mix all of this verbal porridge together into the soup of work created by 50 different authors of varying degrees of ability and you've created the kind of vapid and generic translation the world has unfortunately come to expect.

But I'm preaching to the wind. Sigh!

[Edited at 2015-07-07 16:13 GMT]


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:00
Partial member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Avoid a breakdown Jul 7, 2015

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi Terese,
What they ask for is a reduced weighting depending on match percentages analysed against a reference TM delivered by your client.

You will find quite a few threads on this subject if you search for "fuzzy match".

You should be aware of the pitfalls in this - whether or not a weighted charging scheme is fair depends on a number of factors, including the quality of the delivered TM, as well as the structure and format of the document.

To be very honest, I doubt if it's a wise move to agree to such a scheme before you have acquired a thorough understanding of the dynamics involved. In my experience, one can use weighted charging schemes to generate profitable business, provided that you're able to gauge the impact.

Best regards, Ralf


As Ralf has indicated, it has to do with TMs that might or might not be delivered to you. You can do an analysis of the source text in Trados, without a TM, and it will analyse matching segments. As if these matches would necessarily be matches in the target language (which they often are not, due to grammar rules, word endings, etc.). Thus, it seems rather foolish to base your price on that.

If you look at an analysis (based or not based on a previous TM delivered to you) and decide that there are so many fuzzy or 100% matches that you consider lowering your rate or price, then I would suggest doing that, but not based on a breakdown in sub-rates per percentage group of segment matches, but by lowering the overall price or rate/word. But hold on!

I can tell you from experience that using a CAT tool might help you greatly with consistency (if the source text indeed contains a lot of repetitions), but the way you have to deal with many of the suggestions by previous TMs (they can be wrong or not fitting), and especially when you create a TM from scratch, can add time rather than save it. You will also have to consider all the hints and use the tools in the CAT tool and that's often also additional work.

If, on the other hand, you become so much faster with a CAT tool because of all these matches, you might consider charging more, because you'll be able to deliver faster than others.

One more thing. Recently, I've been thinking a lot about the information we create and store in our TMs. I am sure many translators simply hand it (their IP) over to their clients without thinking what it is they are really giving away, for free.

You might want to check out this thread:
http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/65838-who_owns_the_translation_memory.html


B

[Edited at 2015-07-07 16:21 GMT]


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Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:00
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
As we're all contributing to an 11-year-old thread... Jul 7, 2015

... I thought I'd add a link to a blog post I wrote on this subject. It may be useful to others who read this post, even though Tess is no longer "very new" with Trados!

http://signsandsymptomsoftranslation.com/2015/03/06/fuzzy-matches/


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LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:00
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Oops! Didn't notice that. Sorry Emma Jul 7, 2015

But since you posted your "grid", here's mine:

Perfect matches and context matches 100%
100% matches and repetitions 100%
95-99% 100%
85-94% 100%
No match and up to 84% 100%

If the company uses a rate scale system that cannot be changed, simply raise your base rate from .14 a word to .18 to compensate for all the discounts.


Emma Goldsmith wrote:

... I thought I'd add a link to a blog post I wrote on this subject. It may be useful to others who read this post, even though Tess is no longer "very new" with Trados!

http://signsandsymptomsoftranslation.com/2015/03/06/fuzzy-matches/


[Edited at 2015-07-07 17:15 GMT]


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Roy Oestensen  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 17:00
Member (2010)
English to Norwegian (Bokmal)
+ ...
You will probably not get much work that way, I think Jul 8, 2015

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

If the company uses a rate scale system that cannot be changed, simply raise your base rate from .14 a word to .18 to compensate for all the discounts.


It would be nice if you could do as you suggest above, and you are, of course free to do so, but the result is probably that the agencies don't use you.

If an agency is a serious one (and those I work for, at least, are), they will have baked in the rate scale into their offer v. the clients, as the competition is quite strong also between agencies.

I also see a tendency that the agencies will not pay for 100% matches. But then they don't ask you to check them either. Instead they have other translators/proofreaders who do that job for them.

At least that way they don't risk paying twice for the same job.

There is another side of this, though, namely regarding contracts where the agency has an indemnification clause, and you don't really have any control over what happens after the translation leaves you. In that connection no pay for 100% matches doesn't work out well, I think, as you then can't guarantee a faultless translation based on what are in the 100% matches.

Roy


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Richard Foulkes  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:00
German to English
+ ...
A Trados breakdown... Jul 8, 2015

is what ensues when you finish a project, you're near deadline, the target file won't save and you get an incomprehensible error message. Just kidding. The others have answered the question.

Trados is a great tool and opens up a larger pool of clients, particularly for less experienced translators who may be less able to target direct clients. Every businessperson needs to buy tools of the trade so I don't get too hung up on giving discounts personally but obviously you just need to step back once in a while and make sure it's working for you and not vice versa. Studio paid for itself in a couple of days for me on a job involving discounts and in a week when I had no other work, so giving the discounts was well worth it in that case. Yes, some jobs have been the other way but plenty of others have been 'money for old rope'.

...and then I realised the OP was 11 years old! How frustrating. I blame the people the 'forum police' who jump on people who post a question and tell them to trawl the archives!


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