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Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 17:59
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
May 19, 2004

Customer sent a dozen ttx-files, which include the chapters of a user manual. I have never used TagEditor before (Trados Freelance 5.5). First of all it is difficult to guess how much there is to translate, so I do not know how much time it wil take.
Is it possible to do a fast count of the untranslated segments? How do I know what to charge?
Second problem is, I always let a second person correct my translations, but therefor I need to clean up the translated files and combine them into one Wordfile, since editors do not want to use Trados (do not have it) and opening every one of a dozen files just takes to much time.
How should I proceed?


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Per Riise  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 16:59
Member (2003)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Using Tag Editor May 19, 2004

Word count is done using the analysis function in the WorkBench. As for the second part of your Q, I think you'll have to use the Save Target-function (which converts the document into its original format). From there I guess you'll have to cut and paste the text into a .doc-file, or similar.

There may be other (and better) solutions to your questions, but this is what I can think of off-hand.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:59
English to German
+ ...
Cut and paste depends on the source format May 19, 2004

Just to add to Per's comment: whether you'll be able to cut and paste the target text depends on the source file format to a certain extent - generally, it's possible.

Best regards, Ralf


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 17:59
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, I'll work in rtf May 19, 2004

Because the source file format is unknown to me, probably some dtp-stuff like Dreamworks, I guess, this solution is not possible.
Fortunately the customer provided also the same files as tagged rtf, which I can easily translate otherwise.
But how about the word count: I did the analysis with Trados Workbench, but what does it all mean? Parts of the segments are pretranslated, parts are not. To make it all more complicated, parts of the pretranslated segments need to get adjusted or changed.
How do you handle such cases? Of course I have to negotiate with the customer, but I would like to hear your opinion.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:59
English to German
+ ...
Careful with the tags... May 19, 2004

Hi Heinrich,
Fortunately the customer provided also the same files as tagged rtf, which I can easily translate otherwise.

Be careful about the tags, which might be damaged if you work in Word, for example.

But how about the word count: I did the analysis with Trados Workbench, but what does it all mean? Parts of the segments are pretranslated, parts are not. To make it all more complicated, parts of the pretranslated segments need to get adjusted or changed.
How do you handle such cases?

The main purpose of pretranslation is to deliver files to translators who don't work with Trados. Since you have TagEditor, you should use TTX files which have not been pretranslated; any reference material should be provided separately - then you can run the analysis and use match-based weighting factors as appropriate.

HTH, Ralf


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 17:59
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The TTX is pretranlated too May 20, 2004

It's the first Trados project of this customer, and they will be busy answering questions of some 15 translators from all Europe.

At least it seems the TM was generated by aligning source and target documents, and then the ttx were pretranslated for 100% matches. The problem is, there are many segments designated as 100% matches, where the target segment is indeed the same as the source segment. And many of the proper translated segments need to be corrected. The target segments are from earlier translations, partly by me, partly by other translators, and the terminology needs tuning.

But the good news is, that I am able to deliver the job in time by translating the rtf-files. Then I will clean them, send them to the editors for spell-check etc., apply the corrections to the uncleaned files and send them to the customer.

In fact some other customers use this procedure for tagged files since years without problem.

And for the invoice I will clean the final version, delete all superfluous stuff (formatting information, delimiters and pretranslated segments) and count the rest with Word as usual.
The problem remains, that this customer had paid up till now according to text volume (lines of text), but now starts to talk about Trados word-rates before we translators even had time to negotiate the new rates.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:59
English to German
+ ...
I'd be worried.... May 20, 2004

Hi again,
It's the first Trados project of this customer, and they will be busy answering questions of some 15 translators from all Europe.

Without having tested the exchange of files, and defined processes, this sounds like a perfect recipe for disaster... (Note that my remark isn't Trados-specific - any project that is executed with a distributed team of this size without some testing is bound to go off the rails, unless you're really lucky.

At least it seems the TM was generated by aligning source and target documents, and then the ttx were pretranslated for 100% matches. The problem is, there are many segments designated as 100% matches, where the target segment is indeed the same as the source segment.

Again, in this project context, pretranslation makes no sense whatsoever.

And many of the proper translated segments need to be corrected. The target segments are from earlier translations, partly by me, partly by other translators, and the terminology needs tuning.

In which case I wouldn't even bother discussing any weightings for match percentages.

But the good news is, that I am able to deliver the job in time by translating the rtf-files. Then I will clean them, send them to the editors for spell-check etc., apply the corrections to the uncleaned files and send them to the customer.

Let's hope the customer doesn't come back screaming that the reimport into the DTP application has failed. (It wouldn't be the first time this happens...)


In fact some other customers use this procedure for tagged files since years without problem.

Sure - I didn't say it won't work, but you need to be careful, particularly when you don't know the source file format.


And for the invoice I will clean the final version, delete all superfluous stuff (formatting information, delimiters and pretranslated segments) and count the rest with Word as usual.
The problem remains, that this customer had paid up till now according to text volume (lines of text), but now starts to talk about Trados word-rates before we translators even had time to negotiate the new rates.

Once again, their project management doesn't appear to be up to scratch: these things need to be negotiated and agreed upon before you start translating. Anyway, given the problems with the reference material, I would flatly refuse any such reduction.

Best regards, Ralf


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