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Speed of Work in TagEditor
Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 06:01
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Jun 13, 2004

Hi all!

For future rates I would like to know, how working in TagEditor compares to working in Word/Trados environment.
My first experience with TagEditor was not very encouraging, but perhaps things speed up after a while?
If you have a Word file with x words and spent y hours on it during translation and the same words from a dtp application in ttx.format, how many times y hours should one expect?
Provided of course the project is prepared well from the oursourcer.

Thanks for your input.

Now I'm off for Italy, two weeks strolling and cycling in Tuscony. See you in July!


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:01
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I would say there is not much difference Jun 13, 2004

Or TAG Editor is slightly faster, because you do not need to care about any formatting and it does not mess up formatting.
Working with Polish in Word for instace makes sometimes trouble due to format changes, if the document is badly formatted (and most of customer documents are bad formatted, either in Word or other programms).
I prepare my projects mostly myself, if I use Trados. Only few customers send me prepared projects, but they make no trouble.
Only working with SDLX or Transit I get all projects allready prepared, and these are very often not well prepared.

Regards
Jerzy


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Erik Hansson  Identity Verified
Germany
Member (2002)
Swedish
+ ...
Working time: about the same. Tag check: better Jun 13, 2004

It doesn't take much longer to process a text in TagEditor than in Word/Trados.

However, if the text is filled up with different tags it might be a good idea to use TagEditor, as the tag protection doesn't let you delete the tags, and in addition to that, the TagEditor checks if all the tags in the source and target segments are the same, if the number of tags is the same etc. You don't have these functions in Word.

After 3 pages with many tags you really appreciate this checking function, because you really go blind in a Word file.

Best regards,
Erik

**********************************
Erik Hansson
Technical translator DE-SV
Hansson Übersetzungen GmbH
Am Birkenwäldchen 38
D-01900 Bretnig-Hauswalde, Germany
Phone +49 - 3 59 52 - 321 07
Fax +49 - 3 59 52 - 322 02
E-Mail info@hansson.de
Internet www.hansson.de
Internet www.technical-translators.net
ProZ profile http://www.proz.com/pro/21654
***********************************

[Edited at 2004-06-13 15:00]


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Luca Tutino  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:01
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
RAM consideration Jun 13, 2004

A few years ago I used to consider working in TagEditor slower. Soon I discovered that it was just a RAM problem. TagEditor is an attitional program: With large TMW, large Multiterm glossary, large translation files and tight RAM, the system runs slower, so that you have to wait that TagEditor opens the next unit - very annoying with most coded files.

[Edited at 2004-06-13 17:58]


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Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:01
Member (2003)
English to Czech
+ ...
Pretty fast Jun 13, 2004

I agree with the others, TagEditor is pretty fast if you have enough RAM. Documents with many tags could make it slower.

It's true that you don't have to deal with formatting, but usually you have to deal with tags - insert them, move to a different place in the sentence, etc. It can be time consuming as well. But I charge the same rate no matter what editor I use.

TagEditor, unlike MS Word, cannot autocomplete words. It would be a good idea to use a third-party utility that can do that. See the following thread: http://www.proz.com/topic/21939

The latest version of TagEditor is also very good for editing Excel and PowerPoint files. I hope that some day it will be able to edit MS Word files as well, because there would be no more formatting problems. But I'm afraid it's a question of marketing rather than technology (keep the users waiting as long as possible and let them pay for many small upgrades).


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:01
English to German
+ ...
Authoring issues Jun 13, 2004

Hi all,
Hynek Palatin wrote:

I agree with the others, TagEditor is pretty fast if you have enough RAM. Documents with many tags could make it slower.


We recently had a discussion regarding TagEditor performance issues; Daniel Brockmann at Trados added a few useful hints:


* Sometimes the orginal source file (.XML/.SGML or .HTM) does not have any line breaks but all text and tags on a single line. If this is the case then translation will be very slow as there is only one physical paragraph in the file, which can slow down things dramatically. Workaround is to edit the source file so that it has some line breaks. You can basically add line breaks anywhere using a text editor, but it's best practice to add them after external tags.

* Sometimes the creator of the .INI file uses only internal tags. Again this also can slow down translation (apart from being not very localisation-aware, most tags are external).


HTH, Ralf


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Ewa Posecka
Local time: 05:01
Dutch to Polish
+ ...
problems if you are unexperienced Jun 14, 2004

Hello,

For the same client, same project and product (just different manuals) I used for one manual Word + Workbench and for the other manual TagEditor. I had a very big memory and many matches.
However, working in TagEditor took me more time than expected (and I believe it's because I am unexperienced with this tool).

First of all I was not able to set colors for translated segments/untranslated segments/fuzzies... So everything was black and I had problems finding my segments.

The source text was full of tags and my memory, however very big, included translations without tags. So each time I had a match, I had to delete it, copy source in order to get the tags and then insert the translations between the tags. It took a lot of work and I just couldn't believe there's no other method to simply copy/paste the tags wiothout loosing the translated text from the match. But I was not able to find any solution.
The deadline was very tight and there was no space anymore to read the TagEditor manual. I tried to look for ansewers in the Help menu, but I couldn't find solutions either...

In the past, as project manager, I used very often all CAT tools, including TagEditor, to prepare files for translators. And I must say I never had any problems with any of them. Now, from the other side as translator I can see that you can struggle with simply features if you just don't know what button to push.

Ewa


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:01
English to German
+ ...
Placing tags Jun 14, 2004

Hi Ewa,
Have you taken a look at the Trados Tutorials and the File Formats Reference Guide?

The source text was full of tags and my memory, however very big, included translations without tags. So each time I had a match, I had to delete it, copy source in order to get the tags and then insert the translations between the tags. It took a lot of work and I just couldn't believe there's no other method to simply copy/paste the tags wiothout loosing the translated text from the match. But I was not able to find any solution.


TagEditor treats tags as Placeables, so you can use the same function as for placing figures in the target segment, for example.

Have a look at pages 8-22 et seq. of the Translators Workbench User Guide (depending on the version you're using, you will find it in the "doc" directory of your installation tree): the workflow is illustrated there.

HTH, Ralf


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Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:01
Member (2003)
English to Czech
+ ...
Copying tags Jun 14, 2004

Ewa,

You can also copy and paste tags (or parts of the source text with tags), but you have to disable tags protection before pasting them. More information in the help (search for "Tag Protection command" in the Index).

But inserting them as placeables, as Ralf suggested, is usually more efficient (in the Tag Editor menu: Workbench - Get Previous / Current / Next Placeable or - better - the respective shortcuts).

Copying the whole source segment is good if it contains many tags and just a few words or numbers.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 06:01
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all for your input! Jun 29, 2004

Somehow it just seems more efficient to write first the whole target segment and after that add the required inhancements like italics and bold than put them piece by piece between these silly looking tags. Of course it also depends on the target language.

I find it difficult to proofread the target with all these little images hanging around. And I won't even dream about a proofreader learning to use TagEditor. People who are experts in one specific field and ready to do proofing for a translator are not easily found, but such a person cannot be bothered with TagEditor.


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