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Can you translate with Trados online? (Mod: Trying to translate online content)
Thread poster: Gillian Searl

Gillian Searl  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:39
Member (2004)
German to English
Jun 30, 2004

"We received a request for an offer to translate a website
today and they wanted to know if we could translate it online (with
log-on) AND use trados. I said no, I don't think that works. A colleague
said she thinks you can do that because you recently sent her a trados
analysis of a homepage. I said I thought that only works if you also
use a tracking program and download the site then tranlsate it in html
with the tageditor. She said...
So I ask you, what do you say? Can translations be done online with
trados?"

This came from a customer today - does anyone know the answer? Thanks

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-06-30 16:11]


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:39
German to Spanish
It depends what you means with "online" Jun 30, 2004

If you have the name and password of the "Site" you can easily access, download, translate and upload the files.
You will only need a FTP Program.
But that work only with simple sites and it is very easy to loose links. So you can make a lot of trouble!


Toledo


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:39
English to German
+ ...
You need the files Jun 30, 2004

Hi Gillian,
AFAIK you need the files. The only thing you could do is to use T-Window for Clipboard, but then I fail to see how you would store the site content...

Best, Ralf


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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 23:39
English to French
+ ...
What will they invent next ? Jun 30, 2004

As I see they already ask that the PDF files be converted in text format, although PDF was made just because it is not editable, and the client HAS the text files somewhere, just to lazy to find them, and know they want to translate online + with a CAT tool ! If you keep saying yes at all, it will never end.

How much time do we have left to translate if we have to learn trados, deja vu, transit, convert and de-convert and re-convert files between all kind of different programs, excel/pdf, trados/pdf/dejavu, powerpoint and quark, the intricaties of a website and many others to be able to work ? And all the time getting paid cheaper and cheaper because these tools are supposed to make it easier (said they).

And more they keep the TM, so every time they paid less and less to get the translation, translators are sawing the legs of the chair they sit on.

Trados should have stay a private thing, (I mean you get a translation and you do it with a CAT tool if you want, nobody business) and if some client would have ask for it it should have been more expensive because you had to buy the thing and to learn it.

Now is world turn upside down : the more you buy and learn to use this e-tools, the less you are paid.

Should not somebody say NO at one point ?


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Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 23:39
English to Czech
+ ...
T-Window for Clipboard Jun 30, 2004

I agree with Ralf, you can use T-Window for Clipboard, but only if there is some kind of special localization online interface (a form with source strings and fields for target strings, for example). This would have to be provided by the client. But I think they just don't know what they are talking about.

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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:09
English to Tamil
+ ...
I fully agree with you lien Jul 1, 2004

But alas we seem to be becoming a minority. But let me express my bewilderment. These CAT's are supposed to make our job easier and hence we have to pay through our nose for acquiring them. But then the client jumps in and asks for discounts because we are now having it easy. Where was he when we were struggling as beginners? Did he pay us more at that time because it was more difficult for us to translate?

This is one of the reasons why I have resisted getting the CAT's. Another reason is I find the work more exciting by exercising the old grey cells. I was after all getting along fine even without a computer till two years back. You should know, having translated my posting in another thread from English into French.

Talking of difficulty in working reminds me of a short French skit in which the protoganist, an incompetent government servant was making life miserable for his boss. And this fellow had the gall to argue that he should get an increase in salary because for him the job was quite difficult! I can no longer remember the author's name.

Regards,
N.Raghavan
Added: P.S. with apologies to the poster (and moderator) for co-opting this thread, really we shouldn't... (I too echo Susana's sentiments. Sorry Ralf)


lien wrote:
And more they keep the TM, so every time they paid less and less to get the translation, translators are sawing the legs of the chair they sit on.
Should not somebody say NO at one point ?


[Edited at 2004-07-01 13:32]


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Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:39
English to Spanish
+ ...
not quite, Narasimhan... Jul 1, 2004

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:
But alas we seem to be becoming a minority.



Here's another die-hard member of this club

Here's hoping I am not too optimistic (or old-fashioned) in my belief talent, reliability and sheer perseverance will win the day...

Cheers,

Susana Galilea
Accredited Translator EUTI
sgalilea@ispwest.com
www.accentonspanish.com


P.S. with apologies to the poster (and moderator) for co-opting this thread, really we shouldn't...


[Edited at 2004-07-01 06:26]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:39
English to German
+ ...
Educating customers Jul 1, 2004

Hynek's comment is spot on:
Hynek Palatin wrote:

I agree with Ralf, you can use T-Window for Clipboard, but only if there is some kind of special localization online interface (a form with source strings and fields for target strings, for example). This would have to be provided by the client. But I think they just don't know what they are talking about.


The original query (can we please get back to the point, BTW?) really sounds as if either the customer or some intermediary doesn't have a real handle on the processes involved. This holds an opportunity: if you can explain, possibly improve processes for your customer, you're providing added value, taking the immediate pressure off pricing. (This not fantasy, BTW: it works in practice.)

Best regards, Ralf


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Robert Zawadzki  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:39
English to Polish
+ ...
Terminal Services + T-Window for clipboard Jul 1, 2004

I guess it can be done. Perhaps a client's website uses ex. underlying database, so extracting the texts is complicated. He must have spare XP (I think Progessional, Home Edition probably does not support this) computer or a Terminal Services license. You log on into it, work in a client's enviroment using TRADOS on your machine (in case of XP, the computer on the remote site becomes dedidaced do your session then). The clipboard work across machines then.

Never used TRADOS in such a way though, and I guess there may be some rough edges along the way. What I did is to work my computer with Trados installed remotely, with clipboard working the other way (I am still the only user, so I did not violate the license this way).


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:39
German to English
+ ...
Can you translate with Trados online? (Mod: Trying to translate online content) Jul 1, 2004

I agree with Lien and Ralf. Customers frequently don't understand the processes and need to be educated. PDF is a classic example. I am sure that if customers began asking translators to work standing on their heads, some translators would immediately ask their colleagues where they could buy upside-down keyboards.

Incidentally, OmegaT can translate entire web sites within a single project. Place all the files in the project, including directories, sub-directories, graphics files, etc. in the /source folder, and when the translation is finished and compiled, a mirror is created in the /target folder. Other CAT tools should also be able to do this, surely?

Marc


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xxxchance
French to Chinese
+ ...
Bravo Lien ! Jul 1, 2004

lien wrote:

As I see they already ask that the PDF files be converted in text format, although PDF was made just because it is not editable, and the client HAS the text files somewhere, just to lazy to find them, and know they want to translate online + with a CAT tool ! If you keep saying yes at all, it will never end.

How much time do we have left to translate if we have to learn trados, deja vu, transit, convert and de-convert and re-convert files between all kind of different programs, excel/pdf, trados/pdf/dejavu, powerpoint and quark, the intricaties of a website and many others to be able to work ? And all the time getting paid cheaper and cheaper because these tools are supposed to make it easier (said they).

And more they keep the TM, so every time they paid less and less to get the translation, translators are sawing the legs of the chair they sit on.

Trados should have stay a private thing, (I mean you get a translation and you do it with a CAT tool if you want, nobody business) and if some client would have ask for it it should have been more expensive because you had to buy the thing and to learn it.

Now is world turn upside down : the more you buy and learn to use this e-tools, the less you are paid.

Should not somebody say NO at one point ?


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 14:39
English to French
+ ...
And another one! Jul 3, 2004

Susana Galilea wrote:


Here's another die-hard member of this club

Here's hoping I am not too optimistic (or old-fashioned) in my belief talent, reliability and sheer perseverance will win the day...

Cheers,

Susana Galilea

[Edited at 2004-07-01 06:26]


I also believe that translators should translate. And it so happens that no CAT can help with medical -which is what I do- so why the brouhaha about CAT tools if they're not helping you at all anyway?
Sarah


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Iza Szczypka  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:39
English to Polish
+ ...
Exactly! Jul 29, 2004

This discussion seems to be getting off the original topic, but I cannot resist adding my vote against us becoming software gurus for less money. If you have paid money to get some software that allows you to work faster and deliver better-looking and easily manageable files, you should be paid MORE, not less, since you do a better job. It costs more to hire an expert than a school-leaver, doesn't it?
To me, the two basic questions to ask the customer should be:
1) How fast do you need the job to be done? (the faster, the more expensive, and CAT tools do make us faster)
2) How technologically advanced do you expect the product to be? (after all, a Jaguar is more expensive than a Fiesta, isn't it?)
And the customers' thinking seems just the opposite. It's up to us to change that.


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Stefan Gentz
Local time: 23:39
English to German
+ ...
Just concentrate on your core business: Translation ... Jul 29, 2004

... and let us do the rest. Please excuse, but I would like to draw you attention to TRACOM and outline a little bit what we're doing here. One of the arguments in this thread is: I don't want to struggle with a bunch of file formats that becomes bigger each day and I don't want to waste my time with buying and learning a full load of new (expensive) software and their updates each year. You don't want to buy an expensive Mac + QuarkXPress + InDesign + PageMaker + PageMaker + a PC with the same set of software? I completely understand this and this is the exact reason why TRACOM exists at all. We have all these software and the necessary experience since years. At TRACOM there are dedicated graphics designers, engineers and TRADOS specialists. We are providing exact all these "translation accompanying" services like text export and import from almost any kind of graphic and DTP software to TRADOS RTF/TTX format and back. Also we offer full localization DTP and graphic editing in almost all languages (except CJK and Arabic). We are currently working for more than 20 translation agencies in the US and EU and a big bunch of freelance translators. With our services all of them are free from all the worries about file formats, software etc. They just send us their client's source files and get back from us TRADOS RTFs or TTX files - ready for translation. After translation we build everything back into Quark, FrameMaker etc. and do (if requested) the localization DTP. The translators get back final files they can handoff to their clients. So they can really concentrate on their core business: Translation.
If you are interested in using our services, too, just write me an E-Mail. Maybe we can reduce your additional, not translation related - workload, too


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