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Studio 2011 SP2 - possible to merge segments across paragraph marks?
Thread poster: Erik Freitag
Erik Freitag
Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:25
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Jul 19, 2012

Dear colleagues,

Does SP2 enable Studio to merge segments across paragraph marks? Or will the possibility to edit the source text that has been announced allow me to delete false paragraph marks?

Many thanks in advance,
kind regards,
Erik
 
Emma Goldsmith
Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:25
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
Workaround Jul 19, 2012

Hi Erik,
No, you can't merge segments if you have a hard return separating two segments, but as I mentioned in my review of the New Features in Studio 2011 SP2, a workaround is now possible. You can cut the source text out of the second segment using the edit source feature and paste it into the first segment. As far as I have tested, no harm comes of leaving the seco... See more
Hi Erik,
No, you can't merge segments if you have a hard return separating two segments, but as I mentioned in my review of the New Features in Studio 2011 SP2, a workaround is now possible. You can cut the source text out of the second segment using the edit source feature and paste it into the first segment. As far as I have tested, no harm comes of leaving the second segment blank.
HTH,
Emma ▲ Collapse
 
Erik Freitag
Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:25
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks! Jul 19, 2012

Dear Emma,

Of course, thanks - if I remember correctly, that's the way I did it way back in good old Tag Editor!

Also thanks for your interesting article!

Kind regards,
Erik
 
Tapsa
Tapsa
Local time: 17:25
English to Finnish
Merging by editing source segment Jul 19, 2012

This works, of course, only with Word (and also with PowerPoint, if I remember right) files, not for example with Indesign or plain text files. With these you have to paste the missing part by editing tu after translating the whole "paragraph" to first segment (or editing source file, if possible, and re-importing the file).
 
RWS Community
RWS Community
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:25
English
Careful! Jul 19, 2012

Hi

Please be careful when leaving source segments empty.

It can result into problems/errors (or simply not updating the TM) when trying to update the translation memory.

Plus, the editing feature is meant to make little changes. It is not meant to delete setences etc to overcome the merge function that is limited for setences within a paragraph.

Kind regards
Richard


NEED TO CORRECT MYSELF:

Updating the TMs... See more
Hi

Please be careful when leaving source segments empty.

It can result into problems/errors (or simply not updating the TM) when trying to update the translation memory.

Plus, the editing feature is meant to make little changes. It is not meant to delete setences etc to overcome the merge function that is limited for setences within a paragraph.

Kind regards
Richard


NEED TO CORRECT MYSELF:

Updating the TMs should work fine. This was encountered and fixed during the testing.
So, if there are any empty source segments the worst what you should receive is a error or message that a unit was not imported into the TM.

So in general you could overcome the limitation of the merge function.

Kind regards
Richard

[Edited at 2012-07-19 12:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
 
Erik Freitag
Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:25
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hard return problem still not solved Jul 19, 2012

SDL Support wrote:

Hi

Please be careful when leaving source segments empty.

It can result into problems/errors (or simply not updating the TM) when trying to update the translation memory.

Plus, the editing feature is meant to make little changes. It is not meant to delete setences etc to overcome the merge function that is limited for setences within a paragraph.

Kind regards
Richard


Thanks Richard,

So this basically means that the problem of Studio not being able to merge segments across hard returns still hasn't been solved.

I guess this is one of the main reasons people wanted to be able to edit the source document from within the editor anyway...

Sad.

Thanks anyway,
kind regards,
Erik



[Bearbeitet am 2012-07-19 11:30 GMT]
 
Alexa Dubreuil
Alexa Dubreuil  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:25
English to French
+ ...
Very useful tip Emma Jul 20, 2012

After reading on the SDL Blog yesterday that "Studio 2011 SP2 enables translators to make small changes to content in source segments, like correcting spelling mistakes and removing line breaks or incorrectly scanned characters" (http://www.sdl.com/community/blog/details/14072/sdl-trados-studio-2011-sp2-has-arrived) I was really looking forwar... See more
After reading on the SDL Blog yesterday that "Studio 2011 SP2 enables translators to make small changes to content in source segments, like correcting spelling mistakes and removing line breaks or incorrectly scanned characters" (http://www.sdl.com/community/blog/details/14072/sdl-trados-studio-2011-sp2-has-arrived) I was really looking forward to this new capability of editing source segments...

...This is why I was disappointed when I realised that removing hard returns was still not possible, or at least not in a 'rational' way.

Emma, I read your blog (New Features in Studio 2011 SP2) this morning and was happy to find a way around this problem. Thank you for the tip.

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
a workaround is now possible. You can cut the source text out of the second segment using the edit source feature and paste it into the first segment. As far as I have tested, no harm comes of leaving the second segment blank.


Just one thing though, when you generate the target file, you'll see that an unwanted space appears just before the 'pseudo-merged segment'. A way around this is to use the Studio filter and set it to "All Content" (instead of just "All Segments") - this is how you will see the 'intruding' space and will be able to remove it.

So I agree with Erik, the hard return problem is still not solved:

efreitag wrote:
So this basically means that the problem of Studio not being able to merge segments across hard returns still hasn't been solved.

I guess this is one of the main reasons people wanted to be able to edit the source document from within the editor anyway...


To all users who also wish there was a more straightforward and rational way of merging source segments separated by hard returns, here is a link to vote for this already 'most voted' idea on the SDL ideas website:
"Allow Merging Segments over Paragraph Breaks":
http://ideas.sdl.com/ideas/detail.asp?i=2372 ▲ Collapse
 
Dominique Pivard
Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:25
Finnish to French
workaround demonstrated in video Aug 31, 2012

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
No, you can't merge segments if you have a hard return separating two segments, but as I mentioned in my review of the New Features in Studio 2011 SP2, a workaround is now possible. You can cut the source text out of the second segment using the edit source feature and paste it into the first segment.

Thanks, Emma! I used your workaround in my latest video:

http://wordfast.fi/blog/cat-tools/2012/08/31/join-segments-past-paragraph-marks-in-mainstream-cat-tools/
or
http://youtu.be/y4-6moFvV_I?hd=1

In the video, I perform the same task in Déjà Vu, memoQ, Studio 2011 and Wordfast Pro. The part on Studio starts at 04:35.

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
As far as I have tested, no harm comes of leaving the second segment blank.

Actually, I found that if I left the second segment empty, I would get the original content into the translated document (in my example, a PowerPoint file). This is why I populated it with a dot.
 
Emma Goldsmith
Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:25
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
original source content Sep 1, 2012

Dominique Pivard wrote:

Actually, I found that if I left the second segment empty, I would get the original content into the translated document (in my example, a PowerPoint file). This is why I populated it with a dot.


Hi Dominique,
Glad you were able to use my workaround in your video! I found the comparison of tools interesting in the video, and useful to see how different tools tackle this.

In .docx files (not sure about in ppt ), the original source content won't get inserted in the translated document if you leave the segment blank. The same thing happens as in Deja Vu and MemoQ: you have to delete the paragraph mark that gets left behind.

When I have time, I'll check it out in a ppt file too.
Emma
 


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Studio 2011 SP2 - possible to merge segments across paragraph marks?







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