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Large TMs in Workbench 6.5 compared to Workbench 5.5
Thread poster: Ulrich Roos
Ulrich Roos
Local time: 15:19
German
Oct 14, 2004

Hello everyone!

Since this is my first posting please allow me to introduce myself briefly. I work for the Bundessprachenamt (Federal Language Office) as a technical expert with 7 years experience in Trados.

We are using Trados 5.5 and our larger memories have reached the size of approx. 600,000 TUs. With the large memories we recently experienced an increase in matrix errors and a decrease in concordance search hits. Now we wonder if an upgrade to Trados 6.5 would solve our problems.

Any information on dealing with large TMs is highly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Ulrich


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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 15:19
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
Grosse TMs Oct 14, 2004

Hallo,

bei einer Grössenordnung on 600.00 Units d+rfte wohl auch das Update (und dann natürlich auch ein Konvertieren der Memories) auf 6.5 das Problem wohl nicht wirklich lösen, aber wahrscheinlich entschärfen.

Wir hatten bereits Probleme mit Memries so um die 100 - 150.00 Units, die sich durch das Update deutlich vermindert haben.

Bei TMs dieser Grössenordnung würde ich entweder überlegen, die TMs inhaltlich zu strukturieren d.h thematisch aufzuteilen und statt auf die Konkordanz lieber eine Terminologiedatenbank einzusetzen, oder mal einen Blick auf den TM Server werfen.

Der TM Server dürfte auch mit dieser Anzahl TUs keine echten Probleme haben. Allerdings könnte der Preis durchaus ein gewisses Loch in der Portokasse hervorrufen.

Viele Grüße

Hans


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Pamela Brizzola  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 15:19
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
English: going global Oct 15, 2004

Dear DSC,
your reply in German is surely due to your willngness to please the poster, but it would be nice if you could repost in English, considering you are an English specialist and are posting in a general thread.
This would be useful to everybody.
Thank you


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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 15:19
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
English specialist Oct 15, 2004

Dear Pamela,

I'm sorry, but i'm only a poor computer scientist buzt i try to translate:
-----
Hello,

if you have approx. 600.00 Units, the Update and the conversion to the TMs to the database version 6 will reduce your problems but i think it will not solve your problems.

Our TMs with approx. 100 - 150.00 Units, and we noticed, that the described problems are definetely reduced.

Maybe you should think about decreasing the TMs size by structuring in diffenrent content types and replace the concordance using by expanding your terminology database. Maybe it will be interesting to look at the TM server of Trados.

I think, that the TM server sill not have problems with managing these number of Units. But the price for the TM server is a little bit high, so that you may have problems to pay it from your Portokasse.

With klind regards

Hans
---

P.S.: What is a good translation for "Portokasse" ?

The prices for the TM server can be:
Version / Number of Units / Price / Number of conc. users
TM Server 1 / 100.000 / $15.000 / 3
TM Server 2 / 250.000 / $25.000 / 5
TM Server 3 / 500.000 / $48.000 / 10
TM Server 4 / 1.000.000 / $92.000 / 20
TM Server 5 / 2.000.000 / $158.000 / 40
TM Server 6 / 5.000.000 / $295.000 / 100
TM Server 7 / unlimited / $475.000 / unlimited


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Stefan Gentz
Local time: 15:19
English to German
+ ...
Big TMs Oct 16, 2004

Hi Ulrich,

I can only recommend to update to TMW 6.5.5.438. TRADOS has fixed a lot of problems especially when it is about Unicode and code page handling (e.g. now you can read Russian characters in the edit segement dialog, if you are running TMW on a german windows). Also the TagEditor is so explicitly faster and much more stable with longer TTX files. Personally I have the feeling that pretranslation and file cleaning is much more faster in TMW, too. As a general recommendation I agree with Hans to think about structuring the TM if possible. I hope that TRADOS gave you the good advice to add meta data (fields) to your TM and add TUs with project filter settigs. Actually this is mandatory if you can see that your TMs will become quite big one day. Then you can set up project filter settings and get only the results for the TUs in the TM that you need for translation (e.g. press releases, manuals, website etc.)

Other questions:
1) Do your TMs have "Allow multiple translations for identical source segments" activated? I faced some problems with big TMs and virtually nonsens matches with TMs with some hundred thousand TUs.
2) Do you have single language pair TMs? Or do you have TMs with more than one target language? This also seems to cause some trouble with big TMs.

3) Did you try to
a) reorganize the TM?
b) export and import into an empty, new TM?

4) Which kind of files were translated? If we are talking about tagged files (like ttx) you may like to consider the possiblity that there are tag errors in your TUs. The more TUs with tag errors you have, the more problems TMW (incl. 6.5.5.) has to give you (from a human reader's point of view) "correct" results. Also of course you cannot cannibalize tagged TU for untagged files as 100% matches.

Maybe you can give a few more details about the kind of TUs and perhaps a few examples for the matrix errors.

Cheers,
*Stefan.

P.S.: Off the records, but I couldn't keep it to myself: Yes, Hans is perfectly right. TM-Server is the ultimative answer for big TMs and networked translators. I was working with a TM-Server via UMTS with my laptop a couple of days ago in a hotel and it was amazingly fast. But: As the TRADOS TM-Server pricing structure is simply, well, let me call it "astonishing", I'd suggest to watch out for alternatives. The basic technology behind TM-Server is virtually really simple. Buy a SQL-Server or set up a mySQL-Server for free and hire a cheap VBA/C++/PHP/SQL crack and let him build your own TM-Server. Considering the technology you will get a working system probably sooner than TRADOS has installed their own. And you will pay not half a million Dollar but perhabs a few thousand.


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Ulrich Roos
Local time: 15:19
German
TOPIC STARTER
Answers to Stefan's questions Oct 18, 2004

Stefan Gentz wrote:

Hi Ulrich,

I can only recommend to update to TMW 6.5.5.438. TRADOS has fixed a lot of problems especially when it is about Unicode and code page handling (e.g. now you can read Russian characters in the edit segement dialog, if you are running TMW on a german windows).

This may be very helpful for us because we had some problems with Russian and East European languages as source languages.


I hope that TRADOS gave you the good advice to add meta data (fields) to your TM and add TUs with project filter settigs.

We came up with this idea on our own. However, we make extensive use of meta data. Otherwise it would be impossible to manage our TMs.


Other questions:
1) Do your TMs have "Allow multiple translations for identical source segments" activated? I faced some problems with big TMs and virtually nonsens matches with TMs with some hundred thousand TUs.

Yes, we allow multiple 100% matches. I can imagnie that this also has an impact on our memories.


2) Do you have single language pair TMs? Or do you have TMs with more than one target language? This also seems to cause some trouble with big TMs.

We only use single language pair TMs. Anything else is much too dangerous. If a TM gets damaged you risk loosing translations in more than one language. In addition exclusive access for maintenance blocks more than one translation team.


3) Did you try to
a) reorganize the TM?
b) export and import into an empty, new TM?

Yep, a) and b). At the moment the TMs are working but we update our master TMs on regular basis and when it comes to reorganizing we have to keep our fingers crossed that we don't get any errors.


4) Which kind of files were translated? If we are talking about tagged files (like ttx) you may like to consider the possiblity that there are tag errors in your TUs.

We only deal with Word an PowerPoint. Consequently we do not have any tagging information in the TMs.

We have not yet decided what to do. I see a problem in the missing upwards compatibility of TWB 5.5. We are a large authority and updating all installtions in one go is not possible. As a consequence we would have to keep Version 5.5 and Version 6.5 TMs. I think that managing subject based TMs is easier than managing different TM versions. Therefore we tend to split the TMs.

Cheers,

Ulrich


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