TM (What are "clean" vs. "unclean" files?) Thread poster: Bernadette Mora
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Here again with my troubles with Trados!
I am translating several Word-files using Trados. These Word-files were in a folder.
Now the customer has sent me a note saying:
"Pls deliver clean+uncleaned+updated TM".
What's this?
Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Bernadette
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-10-14 19:33]
| | | | | Clean, uncleaned, TM | Oct 14, 2004 |
Hello,
after translation the files should include the source text and the target text in a translation unit structere. These are the uncleaned files.
The TM should be updated (expanded) with your translation.
After the translation you can use the clean function of the Workbench to delete the source text. Then the files are cleaned.
With kind regards
Hans
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 00:49
English to German
+ ...
| clean, unclean TM | Oct 14, 2004 |
Bernadette Mora wrote:
Here again with my troubles with Trados!
I am translating several Word-files using Trados. These Word-files were in a folder.
Now the customer has sent me a note saying:
"Pls deliver clean+uncleaned+updated TM".
What's this?
Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Bernadette
Hi! unclean files are segmented bilingual files. I normally deliver them only upon reaching an agreement prior to beginning the translation, this applies for the TM as well. As TM and unclean files represent extended products of a translation. But if you have recd. a TM along with the source document, it could also mean updation, which is you are not generating a new TM
Rgds,
Brandis
| | | | | My way to organize it | Oct 14, 2004 |
When a finish a translation a save the doc as: XXX_DE_ES_Toledo_unclean.doc, and as:
XXX_DE_ES_Toledo_clean.doc.
(sometimes with date too, depends the client)
So I have 2 identical docs.
After that, a clean the "clean" doc and let other one (unclean) just like it is.
So I can send both.
Other point is to create a TM for each client (with filter settings). I do not understand how people use only one (getting bigger and bigger) for all clien... See more When a finish a translation a save the doc as: XXX_DE_ES_Toledo_unclean.doc, and as:
XXX_DE_ES_Toledo_clean.doc.
(sometimes with date too, depends the client)
So I have 2 identical docs.
After that, a clean the "clean" doc and let other one (unclean) just like it is.
So I can send both.
Other point is to create a TM for each client (with filter settings). I do not understand how people use only one (getting bigger and bigger) for all clients, that is not rationally, you have no advantage, only problems cause the size.
Toledo ▲ Collapse
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 00:49
English to German
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| unclean file actually is not necessary | Oct 14, 2004 |
Toledo wrote:
When a finish a translation a save the doc as: XXX_DE_ES_Toledo_unclean.doc, and as:
XXX_DE_ES_Toledo_clean.doc.
(sometimes with date too, depends the client)
So I have 2 identical docs.
After that, a clean the "clean" doc and let other one (unclean) just like it is.
So I can send both.
Other point is to create a TM for each client (with filter settings). I do not understand how people use only one (getting bigger and bigger) for all clients, that is not rationally, you have no advantage, only problems cause the size.
Toledo Yes, for the customer it has lesser importance. Because he/ she has a source (his original file) and translation, he can extract the TM content himself. In my experience generally most of the far eastern agencies request all files, translation, TM and the unclean file. What could be the purpose I wonder, but they pay only for the translation. On the otherhand an ever increasing TM would obviously have same or similar DTD / filter settings, otherwise there would be less sence in generating and maintaining a TM
Rgds,
Brandis
| | | | | Not so simple... | Oct 14, 2004 |
Brandis wrote:
]Yes, for the customer it has lesser importance. Because he/ she has a source (his original file) and translation, he can extract the TM content himself
Brandis
Hi,
well, if you only send only the cleaned file they can use Winalign to update the TM, but that cost time. The reason to send a uncleaned file is normally to update another TM with different filter settings (I speak about complex setting that some companies required).
For some companies it ist important to get a exactly definion from where a segment is coming from. Like which product, for what section (sales, marketing, etc.) which product version, mechanic, electricity, computing...
On the otherhand an ever increasing TM would obviously have same or similar DTD / filter settings,
DTD has nothing to do with filter settings.
Filter settings can you update, for example if you have a TM from Siemens where you had already translated some electrical devices, then if you get a new job, for example a NONAME device, it is important to introduce a new filter with this name, I use to put the chapters of the manual too.
For me is no problem to send uncleaned files, why not?, my work is the time I work not more not less.
Gruß
[Edited at 2004-10-14 20:35]
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 00:49
English to German
+ ...
| that is a considerable thought | Oct 14, 2004 |
Toledo wrote: Brandis wrote:
]Yes, for the customer it has lesser importance. Because he/ she has a source (his original file) and translation, he can extract the TM content himself
Brandis Hi, well, if you only send only the cleaned file they can use Winalign to update the TM, but that cost time. The reason to send a uncleaned file is normally to update another TM with different filter settings (I speak about complex setting that some companies required). For some companies it ist important to get a exactly definion from where a segment is coming from. Like which product, for what section (sales, marketing, etc.) which product version, mechanic, electricity, computing... On the otherhand an ever increasing TM would obviously have same or similar DTD / filter settings, DTD has nothing to do with filter settings. Filter settings can you update, for example if you have a TM from Siemens where you had already translated some electrical devices, then if you get a new job, for example a NONAME device, it is important to introduce a new filter with this name, I use to put the chapters of the manual too. For me is no problem to send uncleaned files, why not?, my work is the time I work not more not less. Gruß [Edited at 2004-10-14 20:35]
Rgds,
Brandis
| | | | | Werkvertragsrecht | Oct 14, 2004 |
Hello Brandis,
normally i think you (because you work in Germany) work on base of the German "Werkvertragsrecht". Then your customer has the right to get all things or results which was produced by the order. This includes the translation memory and all other partial results of the translation.
Please correct me if i'm wrong
Have a good night
Hans
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 00:49
English to German
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| production vs. Service units | Oct 14, 2004 |
DSC wrote:
Hello Brandis,
normally i think you (because you work in Germany) work on base of the German "Werkvertragsrecht". Then your customer has the right to get all things or results which was produced by the order. This includes the translation memory and all other partial results of the translation.
Please correct me if i'm wrong
Have a good night
Hans Hi! If I go to a Schumacher and get my shoes done, I am not taking his instruments and knowledge, which he dearly had customized for himself and maintains them. This argument may not the situation well, similarly it fits lesser to translation industry area. Where agencies and translators can communicate it is only right to mention the total scope and requirement of a project and reach an understanding. If you consider the number of hours you put into customizing your tools and accessories for your purpose, you wouldn´t be sacrificing either. Which advantages does an agency have in demanding the unclean and updated TM, that were not mentioned prior to beginning, and how would it be profiting from it, and why can´t they pay for the benefit they are getting through you. Irgendeine Vertragsform ist notwendig, damit man sich verträgt, sind wir alle etwa ein Selbstopfer. I do not mean that the work involved in this is enormous, but that really depends upon the scope of a project.
Rgds,
Brandis
| | | | Parrot 
Spain
Local time: 00:49
Spanish to English
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| Clean vs. unclean | Oct 14, 2004 |
Bernadette Mora wrote:
Here again with my troubles with Trados!
I am translating several Word-files using Trados. These Word-files were in a folder.
Now the customer has sent me a note saying:
"Pls deliver clean+uncleaned+updated TM".
What's this?
Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Bernadette
The clean files are your product after cleaning. If they need the unclean ones as well, rename the *.baks (or send them; the client will know what to do with them).
The "updated TM" presumes you received a set of files with the extensions *.iix, *.mdf, *.mtf, *.mwf and *.tmw (always keep a backup of the originals). Send these files back after the cleaning.
There are, of course, other ways of extracting/updating the TM. If you rename the *.baks and send them and the client processes them, his TM will be updated (sometimes more convenient if the TM has grown to over 6 megas).
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 01:49
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Clean the file with a new TM | Oct 15, 2004 |
Do not send all your working TM, as it could have a lot of prior work in it that the new customer has no rights what so ever for. So befor cleaning the file(s) start with a new, empty TM, so the customer will get only the segments belonging to that job.
Workfast creates always a new file with extension .bak when cleaning up.
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Brandis wrote:
Hi! If I go to a Schumacher and get my shoes done, I am not taking his instruments and knowledge, which he dearly had customized for himself and maintains them. ....
Hello Brandis,
the example isn\'t good, because you don#t give your Trados version and yopu brain to the customer.
Normal case is: You will get an order form me. I sent you the for Trados prepared files, reference files, a specific TM, maybe a terminology database. Your job is to translate the files with Trados and the i think it is no problem for you to send me all work files back. Normally i don\'t expect to get uncleaned files, because approx. 70 % of all translations will done by TagEditor and i use the ttx files for reconvert the translation into the source format.
If you send only the ceaned files, i maybe have a lot of trouble to make corrections of the translation or of the tag structure.
Take another example:
You buy a new house from a company. Tehe company builds the house and say here you can take it, but you will not get the plans of the house. Is this correct?
With kind regards
Hans
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Brandis (X)
Local time: 00:49
English to German
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DSC wrote: Brandis wrote:
Hi! If I go to a Schumacher and get my shoes done, I am not taking his instruments and knowledge, which he dearly had customized for himself and maintains them. .... Hello Brandis, the example isn't good, because you don#t give your Trados version and yopu brain to the customer. Normal case is: You will get an order form me. I sent you the for Trados prepared files, reference files, a specific TM, maybe a terminology database. Your job is to translate the files with Trados and the i think it is no problem for you to send me all work files back. Normally i don't expect to get uncleaned files, because approx. 70 % of all translations will done by TagEditor and i use the ttx files for reconvert the translation into the source format. If you send only the ceaned files, i maybe have a lot of trouble to make corrections of the translation or of the tag structure. Take another example: You buy a new house from a company. Tehe company builds the house and say here you can take it, but you will not get the plans of the house. Is this correct? With kind regards Hans
Even in the case of an architectural plan of a house, it is normally done by an architect, in germany these are separate offices, construction companies normally co-operate or have their own architects. So that marginal effort has a marginal price. The client is free to get his idea designed by an architect ( at a marginal price, I hope you know the situation of Planararchitekten in Germany, many are freelancing people and hardly manage a good income) and later get the house finished by a constuction house. By the way lately some west german company had offered me TMs for different disciplines priced at €477,- for 50,000 Terms, so I guess the tendency is growing now in a differnt direction.
Gruß,
Brandis
| | | | | excuse my ignorance... | Oct 15, 2004 |
Brandis wrote: TM updation
I have been using CAT tools for a few years now (mainly Wordfast) and never heard of it...what is TM updation?
Cheers,
Grace.
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 00:49
English to German
+ ...
Graciela Carlyle wrote: Brandis wrote: TM updation I have been using CAT tools for a few years now (mainly Wordfast) and never heard of it...what is TM updation? Cheers, Grace.
Best Regards,
Brandis
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