Trados - Isn't having an efficient filing system enough? Thread poster: yolanda Speece
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What makes Trados such a sought after software that it merits paying $700 to possess it. Isn't having an efficient filing system enough?
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2004-11-24 06:16]
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Marc P (X) 
Local time: 11:56
German to English
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| Trados - Isn't having an efficient filing system enough? | Nov 24, 2004 |
If you were to say "filing and indexing system", then yes - that would be enough. And that's exactly what Trados is. It enables you to find all sentences you have encountered since you began using it which contain a particular word or phrase, together with their corresponding translations, and to do so instantly. Different CAT tools have different approaches, but essentially, that's what they all are: efficient filing and indexing systems for sentences or paragraphs.
In view of the ... See more If you were to say "filing and indexing system", then yes - that would be enough. And that's exactly what Trados is. It enables you to find all sentences you have encountered since you began using it which contain a particular word or phrase, together with their corresponding translations, and to do so instantly. Different CAT tools have different approaches, but essentially, that's what they all are: efficient filing and indexing systems for sentences or paragraphs.
In view of the benefits, in fact, $700 is peanuts. But if you can manage without the bells and whistles, grab yourself a copy of OmegaT and save yourself $700.
Marc ▲ Collapse
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| Conversion! (and analysis...) | Nov 24, 2004 |
There's another reason that Trados is such a valuable tool. The Trados "package" includes numerous conversion programs that make it possible to translate documents without loss of formatting. The programs supported include:
Interleaf, FrameMaker: The Trados "S-Tagger" converts files from these programs into tagged Word files, which makes translation without loss of layout possible even by someone who posseses niether the layout program nor Trados.
PageMaker, QuaryXPress... See more There's another reason that Trados is such a valuable tool. The Trados "package" includes numerous conversion programs that make it possible to translate documents without loss of formatting. The programs supported include:
Interleaf, FrameMaker: The Trados "S-Tagger" converts files from these programs into tagged Word files, which makes translation without loss of layout possible even by someone who posseses niether the layout program nor Trados.
PageMaker, QuaryXPress: The Trados "StoryCollector" allows you to do the same for these programs.
PowerPoint, Excel, Visio: The Trados "T-Windows" programs allow you to translate these files in the original layout, but require that the translator have both the layout program and Trados installed.
HTML, XML: These formats can be translated using the Trados TagEditor, which recognizes the difference between non-translatable codes and text that must be translated.
In addition, Trados is very valuable if you have to send quotations to potential customers. You can analyse an entire batch of files and generate a report that shows the number of words in each "match" category. Based on your own rates (or those of your translators), you can quickly calculate exactly how much the job is going to cost. ▲ Collapse
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Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 03:56
English to Spanish
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In memoriam | Often Enough | Nov 24, 2004 |
I have found that good file organization plus a good memory are more than enough. If I have to go back to find material I have done before and reproduce it verbatim, it's in there somewhere. My file organization is really not so good but I can find it.
I don't know why I would ever want to complicate my life with Trados.
Of course I can't remember people's names and I have no idea what I did yesterday, but you give me a phrase or a sentence, and bingo!
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yolanda Speece
Local time: 04:56
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | In plain english, Ben! | Nov 25, 2004 |
What does all that mean? if you have a quark document, you can translate it in a word format and it just converts it to quark?
Maybe I am just a little daft but I don't understand! I guess I'm just not edjamacated! (aheah! aheah! aheah! Goofy laugh!)
I'm sorry Ben. I am just trying to understand why it is an "industry standard".
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Hynek Palatin
Czech Republic
Local time: 11:56
Member (2003)
English to Czech
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| Quark and Trados | Nov 25, 2004 |
yolanda Speece wrote:
What does all that mean? if you have a quark document, you can translate it in a word format and it just converts it to quark?
Almost like that. There is a tool called Story Collector for QuarkXPress. It converts files in QXD and QXT format to a text format (QSC) that can be translated using Trados TagEditor and then imported back into Quark. This way, formatting is fully preserved and you can use all the advantages of translation memory.
Back to your original question - no filig system can substitute a CAT tool (Trados is not the only one, it's just the most popular). Sure, there are a few areas where CAT tools are not very useful - for example literary translations. But if you translate similar or repetitive documents, a CAT tool will substantially increase your productivity. There are people who just don't want to hear that, but that's another story.
I wonder why nobody is asking: "Why should I buy a computer for $1000 or more if I can type pretty fast on my typewriter?"
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yolanda Speece
Local time: 04:56
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | Quark and Trados | Nov 25, 2004 |
There is a HUGE difference between a computer and a typewriter!
I think you REALLY get more from a computer than you do a typewriter.
Furthermore TRADOS is SOFTWARE not an entire computer. Why are you going to pay $700 for software when you can buy a whole computer, maybe even two, for that price? Microsoft Office is only $300 and it offers a whole heck of a lot more!
So far, from everything I have heard about Trados, it is an expensive, overpriced inde... See more There is a HUGE difference between a computer and a typewriter!
I think you REALLY get more from a computer than you do a typewriter.
Furthermore TRADOS is SOFTWARE not an entire computer. Why are you going to pay $700 for software when you can buy a whole computer, maybe even two, for that price? Microsoft Office is only $300 and it offers a whole heck of a lot more!
So far, from everything I have heard about Trados, it is an expensive, overpriced index/filing system providing the user with the opportunity to where he/she never has to re-translate or re-type ever again. IF the user has translated something similar in the past, can't he/she just look up that translation and copy/paste?
Trados keeps improving its model every 6 months and has not come down in price. At least with computers, if there are new bells and whistles, they come down in price on the models that do not offer these bells and whistles.
Also, the reason I asked for information on Trados is that I don't want to hear what I have been hearing.
"Trados is great!"
However, it seems that I either seem to lose the explanation as to why it is great or the person saying Trados is great fails to tell me why it is great.
It is sort of like Six Sigma and ISO's. Six Sigma is an efficiency tool that a lot of organizations use to improve their performance. The concept is fairly simple and any organization can do it. But to get the certification as a Six Sigma or ISO organization is expensive. The thing is, it is becoming necessary to show your efficiency in the business world by making claims such as "we are a Six sigma corporation" or "we are an ISO 9000 company", much like it is necessary nowadays to say you use TRADOS or have a working knowledge of it.
The only difference is that it with Six Sigma and ISO, you have something tangible that you are getting. Six Sigma could be practiced without the certification and still make the claim.
The companies who sell these efficiency (within Six Sigma and ISO)programs also work within the company's budget.
I don't see that with TRADOS.
The price you pay for it as a freelancer is the price you pay if you are a business. It has always been overpriced and every year it gets more and more expensive.
I want to purchase it because I hear it is great but nobody can seem to tell me what the benefits are (other than younever has to re-translate or re-type ever again) and don't say that if you use Trados you will get more work. That is like saying if you use a certain pair of athletic shoes, you will run faster.
I want facts and I haven't really heard any! ▲ Collapse
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dgmaga (X)
English to Spanish
| Trados - Isn't having an efficient filing system enough? - I don't think so | Nov 25, 2004 |
Hi, to answer your question: No
You asked:
"So far, from everything I have heard about Trados, it is an expensive, overpriced index/filing system providing the user with the opportunity to where he/she never has to re-translate or re-type ever again. IF the user has translated something similar in the past, can't he/she just look up that translation and copy/paste?"
Imagine this situation: you are translating a document and you come across a paragraph that sounds ... See more Hi, to answer your question: No
You asked:
"So far, from everything I have heard about Trados, it is an expensive, overpriced index/filing system providing the user with the opportunity to where he/she never has to re-translate or re-type ever again. IF the user has translated something similar in the past, can't he/she just look up that translation and copy/paste?"
Imagine this situation: you are translating a document and you come across a paragraph that sounds familiar. What do you do?
a) You search with your indexed filing system. You have search for that text in the source language. You find the source version of that document that you translated some time ago. Now you have to compare if the paragraph that you have to translate now is the same that the one you have to translate now. Then you have to open the translated document and look for the translated paragraph (which might or might not be in the same page as in the source document). After browsing the document manually, you find the translation. You copy and paste into your new documents. You have performed 6 actions:
1) Search and find the source document that you translated.
2) Compare the paragraphs in the old document and in the new document.
4) Locate the translated document.
5) Find in the translated document the translation that you use some time ago.
6) Copy and paste the translation.
b) You are using Trados (or any other CAT tool)
The tool tells you that you have translated this before and inserts the translation that you used.
You have performed one action.
Another scenario: you are translating a document and you come across a techcnical term which you are sure you have translated before (and spent quite some time researching).
a) Filing system: you search for all the source documents you have ever translated and find ten documents that contain this term. You open the ten source documents, find where the term occurs and then locate the translated documents and browse them manually to find out which term you used.
b) Trados (or any CAT tool): you select the term. Clik a button and your screen shows each source sentence where the term appears with its corresponding translated sentence.
Now: if you have to do this kind of things 20 times a day and you save a minute everytime with a CAT tool. You are saving nearly 2 hours every week.
If you don't need to refer to previous translations frequently (this also depends on the type of projects you have) or you have a good memory yourself then a CAT tool might not be so useful for you, anyway.
My suggestion would be: download a demo version of any of the CAT tools which are available. Read the manuals or tutorials. Try them and see if they are worthwhile for you. It might be the case that they are not.
I hope this helps!
Daniel ▲ Collapse
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Hynek Palatin
Czech Republic
Local time: 11:56
Member (2003)
English to Czech
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yolanda Speece wrote:
There is a HUGE difference between a computer and a typewriter!
And there is a HUGE difference between translating with or without a CAT tool (as I said, Trados is not the only one).
Microsoft Office is only $300 and it offers a whole heck of a lot more!
MS Office is a mass product. CAT tools are not. It's a question of supply and demand.
IF the user has translated something similar in the past, can't he/she just look up that translation and copy/paste?
How efficiently can you search all your previous translations? Let's say you find a sentence that you have already translated before. How quickly can you find the translation in the target document? How quickly can you find similar sentences and their translations? (Can you do that at all?) How quickly can you find translations of sentences containing particular word or several words? CAT tool does this for you instantly.
The price you pay for it as a freelancer is the price you pay if you are a business. It has always been overpriced and every year it gets more and more expensive.
If you translate repetitive or similar documents, CAT tool will increase your productivity. You will be able to translate more and earn more and the software will pay off. Also, you can buy CAT tools cheaper if you look for promotions, group buys etc. I know what I'm saying, I have already bought two of them and several upgrades. It was worth the money.
I want to purchase it because I hear it is great but nobody can seem to tell me what the benefits are (other than younever has to re-translate or re-type ever again) and don't say that if you use Trados you will get more work. That is like saying if you use a certain pair of athletic shoes, you will run faster.
Not having to retranslate or retype ever again is one of the greatest benefits. If this is of no importance for you, then you probably don't need a CAT tool.
Getting more work depends on your area of specialization. Many agencies require a CAT tool. If you work for them, you will probably get more work. (Medical translations might be the case.)
And yes, you will be probably translating faster.
I want facts and I haven't really heard any!
Do you want to hear them? See Ben's and Daniel's posts.
To be fair, I have to say there are also disadvantages to using CAT tools. Some of them are not easy to learn (it depends how computer-savvy you are). Agencies are pushing us to charge less (search the forums for "fuzzy matches"). And it's not easy to choose the right CAT tool.
I agree with Daniel's suggestion to download a trial version and see for yourself. Good luck!
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yolanda Speece
Local time: 04:56
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | How do I download a trial version? | Nov 26, 2004 |
Is there a particular link I can go to?
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Hynek Palatin
Czech Republic
Local time: 11:56
Member (2003)
English to Czech
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| Trial/demo versions | Nov 26, 2004 |
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yolanda Speece
Local time: 04:56
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER |
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