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Complete paragraphs disappear after translating
Thread poster: LindaMcM

LindaMcM  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:42
Swedish to German
+ ...
Aug 18, 2005

Hi,

I am starting getting desperate: tomorrow I have to deliver a 20 k words translation and I am sitting here looking for disappeared paragraphs. I see them in the original and while "translate to fuzzy" but when it's finished, they are gone. Not all, just a few (which is still too much).

I got one Word document (100 pages, with index) which I splitted in five smaller ones. Translating went well (the now missing parts are in my TM, which I created for this project so I have translated them). But I can't see them. Neither in the uncleaned document nor in the cleaned one.

I have tried to extract just these parts from the original and translate them once again, with a new TM but: they disappear. It doesn't matter which view I choose in Word, they aren't there.

I have tried to put the uncleaned files together (as I have to deliver one uncleaned document). That works pretty well but, of course, the missing paragraphs aren't there.

I have restarted the computer, restarted Trados, restarted Word, reorganised the TM, exported and imported the TM, tried "fix document",... I just don't know what to do anymore.

I'm working with Trados 7.0.0.615 (Build 615) and Word 2002.

Does anybody know what to do?

TIA, Linda

[Edited at 2005-08-19 02:14]


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
A possible workaround Aug 19, 2005

I have no idea what caused your problem, but maybe you could use your exported TM to translate the file(s) using your Metatexis or SDLX?

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:42
English to German
+ ...
Track changes issue? Aug 19, 2005

Hi Linda,
Before starting to translate the document(s), did you check whether it/they contained any revision marks? Working on documents with tracked changes can lead to rather unpredictable behaviour.

Also, are you sure the paragraphs really disappear, or are they just not visible in a particular view (e.g. in Layout vs. Normal view)?

Best regards,
Ralf


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LindaMcM  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:42
Swedish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Time pressure gave birth to "smart idea" Aug 19, 2005

Hi,

Harry, I didn't even think about trying one of my other tools. I am in no way a Trados specialist and trying to get three programs working together is just too much for me.

Ralf, well, I don't know where they are but in any case, I can't see them. I have switched between the different views and there are just gaps where the paragraphs should be.
I also couldn't see any strange revision marks.

Getting up at 3 am (and still sitting here) I thought I had a very smart idea. At least, now I have a finished although a clean translation. My client would accept that - if he gets the TM. Well, this is not up to date anymore.
My "smart idea" was this align thing to create an updated TM and that's what I have been trying for the last hours...

I try to take it with kind of a grim sense of humour: I didn't imagine there are so many (strange) functions and "learning by doing" is often the best... Now I also know exactly how many cups of coffee I get from one can (as the result was the same for the two cans I have been drinking this morning, I have changed to tea now).

At the moment I have no time to care about "why" (but I am still very interested!!), I just have to get this finished first!

Now I have taken a break, wouldn't it be something like Murphy's law if it works now? I cross my fingers and keep on trying.

Linda


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:42
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Please try to select the whole text Aug 19, 2005

by pressing CTRL+A, then press CTRL+D (to go to character formatting) and select the colour of the text to "Auto" or "Black". There is a slight possibility, that someone had the great idea to format the text with white characters.
Also make sure, that the checkbox for "Hidden text" is UNSELECTED.
Aplly the changes - and I´ll keep my fingers crossed.

Regards
Jerzy


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Alaa Zeineldine  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 21:42
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Try adding end of paragraph marks Aug 19, 2005

I have sometimes struggled with this problem too. The pattern I saw was that it happens in most cases to a pargraph that:

- is the last paragraph in a table column
- is in the last table row for the current page
- does *not* have and end of paragraph mark at the end, i.e. the pragraph is just terminated by virtue of being at the end of the table in this page.

The problem does not show until you attempt to close the translation unit, at which time the whole table cell is erased, and it is erased not just hidden.

To mitigate the effect of this Trados bug you need to show hidden characters and always watch for the end of paragraph marks at the end of table cells (the inverted P). When a cell does not end with end of paragraph, hit enter a couple of times at the end of the last paragraph in the cell before your translate it.

Hope this helps.

Alaa

[Edited at 2005-08-19 10:52]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:42
English to German
+ ...
You can search for revisions in Word Aug 19, 2005

Hi again,
Ralf, well, I don't know where they are but in any case, I can't see them. I have switched between the different views and there are just gaps where the paragraphs should be.
I also couldn't see any strange revision marks.


Don't know what you mean by "strange" revision marks - in Word XP, you can see revision marking if you switch the view to "Final version with mark-ups" (provided that View - Mark-up is activated). You can also search for revision marks, using the arrows on the Mark-up toolbar (not sure if that's what it's called in English - in the German Word version, it's called Überarbeiten).

This is standard Word functionality.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 21:42
English to Czech
+ ...
Translate in a new document Aug 19, 2005

I also think the reason might be changes tracking. You should start by accepting all changes in the source document and disabling changes tracking.

Anyway, if you still need a workaround - I would copy the "bad" paragraphs and paste them into a new document using Edit - Paste special - Unformatted text. Translate with Trados, clean up and copy and paste back into the final document.


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LindaMcM  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:42
Swedish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all so far! Aug 19, 2005

Sorry Ralf, I should have chosen better wording. There are no (not even strange) revision marks. That can't be the problem.

Jerzy, unfortunately marking all and changing colour doesn't change anything. I have tried hidden/not hidden text in any possible phase and on all documents, cleaned and uncleaned - the text is, as far as I can see, just not there.

Alaa, please forgive me but I'm so happy that I am not the only one making this (extremely annoying) experience! There are some tabels in the document but that fact doesn't seem to affect the "disappearing paragraphs". Some are with tabels, some not.
I still have hope to get this alignment running as the translation is finished (at the moment I am not able to save the translated file as a rtf file, which seems to be kind of important, but it should be solvable).

But, and that's the best news for today, my client accepts the cleaned translation and I have the whole weekend to learn the alignment feature. That must be possible!

Linda


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
RTF allowed? Aug 19, 2005

LiMaBi wrote:
...(at the moment I am not able to save the translated file as a rtf file, which seems to be kind of important, but it should be solvable)

If you succeed saving the file as .rtf (without loosing anything important) you could translate it in TagEditor.
I would bet that the problem won't occur there..

...and I have the whole weekend to learn the alignment feature. That must be possible!

Another bet: You will learn it during one weekend


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LindaMcM  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:42
Swedish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tag Editor as solution Aug 19, 2005

If you succeed saving the file as .rtf (without loosing anything important) you could translate it in TagEditor.
I would bet that the problem won't occur there..


I wasn't even aware that a RTF file and Tag Editor could be a solution and the original file was easily converted to RTF...
Well, trying to translate it all again, with Tag Editor and the "old" TM and then add the updates manually to each segment is plan B (did I mention that the whole thing has more than 20.000 words, about 3.000 segments or something like that?).
If I manage the alignment it will be a bit more comfortable / not that time consuming.
At least, I think so, but maybe I'll wake up on Sunday to find out that I'm still lost in "translator's hell" and alignment is rubbish.

One of these solutions just has to work out. I can hardly tell my client to do the alignment himself, if he wants the TM...

But now I have been struggling for twelve hours only today, I need a break.

Another bet: You will learn it during one weekend


From your mouth to God's ear. I really hope so.

Linda

[Edited at 2005-08-19 13:36]


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:42
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Would you please contact me via my profile Aug 19, 2005

and send me the file?
You can send it also directly to jerzy at czopik dot com

Thank you
Regards
Jerzy


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kimjasper  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 21:42
Member (2006)
English to Danish
+ ...
Tag Editor Aug 19, 2005

If the RTF is bilingual (which I believe it is) then you cannot use Tag Editor with it. If the original source file was not bilingual (i.e. an ordinary document) then you could use Tag Editor with that one, using the TM you have built during all your long hours and thus apply your previous translations more or less automatically I think.

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