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PM's request for translation memory
Thread poster: KorTranz

KorTranz  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:17
English to Korean
+ ...
Feb 22, 2006

Hello,

I began using Trados 7.1. I have just finished a large project for a company. The project mananger wants to have the translation memory. Is it normal for them to ask freelancers for the TM? Do freelancers worry that they may not get any more jobs from the same company that they give their TMs to? What do people think about this issue?

Where do I find the TM on my computer?

Thank you very much!


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:17
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
I see no problem Feb 22, 2006

Hi,

KorTranz:

Do freelancers worry that they may not get any more jobs from the same company that they give their TMs to?


Well, even if you don't deliver the project TM, it can easily be created using the uncleaned file. And, in case a cleaned file was delivered, with a simple alignment a bilingual export for a TWB TM can be created.

This issue has been discussed before and it seems that translators have different opinions. Personally, I have no problem with delivering the project TM if asked to do so, provided that I was asked explicitly to use a CAT.

If I was asked to work with Trados, I have a TM, don't need to take any extra step, so why should I not deliver it?

If I were not asked to work with a CAT (and I did it anyway - it's matter of habit, for myself), I wouldn't feel any need to deliver the TM "all inclusive"

Personally, I am not worried about not being contacted again: if my translation work was satisfactory, my client will come back to me. A TM is an useful tool, can assure consistency, but can't substitute a human translator.

Where do I find the TM on my computer?


In the folder where you have saved it. It is made of 5 files, but you could also export the TM in *.txt format (much lighter) and send the export file only.

Of course you can create a protected TM and send it, i.e. a TM that can only be used with a password (you have to provide), but no *.txt file can be imported.

Giuliana


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Jerónimo Fernández  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
+ ...
I don't let it keep me awake at night :-) Feb 22, 2006

KorTranz wrote:
Is it normal for them to ask freelancers for the TM?


Hiya.

It depends on the company and on what you guys agreed, really.


Do freelancers worry that they may not get any more jobs from the same company that they give their TMs to? What do people think about this issue?


Personally, I don't worry about that. Anyway, if they wanted, they could re-create the TM, either by:
- using the uncleaned translated version (if that's what they wanted me to deliver), or by
- win-aligning the original text and the clean translated version

and not use me anymore, so, as I said, I don't worry.


Where do I find the TM on my computer?


Open Trados Translator's Workbench, click File, then Properties, then, under Item Name, click Location. Here you'll see the complete path where your TM is.

Just in case you want to copy it, send it or something, remember to take all five files.

HTH.
Regards,
Jerónimo


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:17
English to German
+ ...
Provide the pre-cleanup file, or a TM export Feb 22, 2006

Hi,

Is it normal for them to ask freelancers for the TM?

Nothing unusual; I usually request the pre-cleanup file, which means that I can incorporate a translation delivered into my TM simply be cleaning up that file.

Do freelancers worry that they may not get any more jobs from the same company that they give their TMs to?

One of the oldest debates since the advent of CAT tools, I guess - provided that you provide a good service in your field(s) of specialisation, no TM will be able to replace you.


Where do I find the TM on my computer?

Er... you created it, so you're the one who can answer that... A TM consists of the main memory file (.tmw), plus four index files with the same name, but different file extensions.

The question is whether you want to give away your entire TM (assuming that it also contains segments from other jobs). It's probably better to provide a TM export for that project (which would require, of course, that you used a project attribute) - alternatively, deliver a pre-cleanup file.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Monika Coulson  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:17
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
+ ...
Yes, it is normal Feb 22, 2006

I asked a similar question several years ago and now I am getting used with clients asking me for the TM.

Monika


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KorTranz  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:17
English to Korean
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
You are ALL great! Feb 22, 2006

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS!

These comments were very helpful for me.


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Rafa Lombardino
United States
Local time: 08:17
Member (2005)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
What I usually do is... Feb 22, 2006

Whenever clients ask for the TM after the translation has been done, I provide them with the unclean files so that they can process them with Trados. The problem is that I chose to have my TMs separated in my working language pair so, unless the client tells me otherwise, I'll just use my TM when working on a file. I could not provide this one large TM to one client due to the fact that information from other clients will also be available there.

When a client does ask for the TM before I start working on the project, I do create a separate TM for this client and send it to him/her along with the translated material. Then I have to open the unclean files and process them through Trados with the language pair TM (the general one) so that I can have access to my own translation regardless of the client I may translate for in the future.

Same thing is valid for glossaries. I chose to use one large MultiTerm file combining all my working languages and I enter the terms I believe to be important to keep while working on different projects. If the client asks for the glossary beforehand, I create a separate sheet (Word or Excel) with the same terms I get to add to the MultiTerm file during the translation process. If the client decides, a month later, that he/she would like to keep a glossary of the terms used in a given assignment, I explain to him/her that it will not be possible for me to go through thousands of entries and create a file with what is relevant to their particular job — unless they pay for the hour for me to do so...

I hope it makes sense... It's pretty common for clients to ask for the TMs and glossaries, but I believe they must consider doing it before the translator starts working on the files so that everybody is on the same page.


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:17
Spanish to English
+ ...
The other side of the coin............ Feb 22, 2006

When you hand over a TM, you are handing over the means to reduce pay on your next job/to another translator.

So what I would like to know, in a theoretically perfect world, and assuming that you can't refuse to hand over the TM, is how this company pays matches, MOST especially the fuzzy ones.

Without being able to put a finger on the precise point when a fuzzy match is next to worthless, the fact is that a 50-60-70% match (even higher?) is next to worthless.... most companies pay these at a very reduced rate..... yet the work is as much as if you had to translate from scratch.

Here's an example:

ST 1
La convocatòria de xarxes temàtiques (XT) es va iniciar l’any 1994, com un instrument integrador de la recerca a Catalunya.
TT 1
The thematic networks project was initiated in 1994 as an instrument for integrating research performed in Catalonia.

ST 2
recerca a Catalunya integrador de la com un instrument es va iniciar l’any 1994 La de xarxes temàtiques convocatòria
TT 2 - 73% match
The thematic networks project was initiated in 1994 as an instrument for integrating research performed in Catalonia.

Ignore the fact that ST 2 is gibberish (it's a mere rearrangement of the words in ST1). The point is that the CAT tool classified this as a 73% match, but the translator would essentially have to rewrite the entire sentence from scratch. What's more it's distracting when you see you have a 'match', sometimes it's simply just easier to write on a blank slate.

I personally avoid working for fuzzy rates unless the No Match rate is good-excellent, and as a rule I expect the full rate for matches below 70-80%.

I return BAK files if asked, not TMs, but don't feel too happy about it either:-) I don't like getting TMs either (from agencies), 9 times out of 10, they are of poor quality.







[Edited at 2006-02-22 23:41]


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Peter Bouillon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:17
Member (2005)
French to German
+ ...
Not much trouble Feb 22, 2006

Rafa Lombardino wrote:
Whenever clients ask for the TM after the translation has been done, I provide them with the unclean files so that they can process them with Trados.


This is what I do in such cases: I simply create an empty Trados TM and clean a copy (!) of the uncleaned file using it. The resulting TM is then dispatched to the client and stashed away afterwards.

P.


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Peter Bouillon  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:17
Member (2005)
French to German
+ ...
Negotiation Feb 23, 2006

Lia Fail wrote:
When you hand over a TM, you are handing over the means to reduce pay on your next job/to another translator.


Yes - although I suppose it is our business to negotiate a fee that is to our liking as well as to the liking of the client.

There are translators that refuse Trados rebates for TMs provided by third parties. Their reasoning is that translators have each a specific writing style, and mixing translations of different translators leads to deteriorated quality.

OTOH, let's say you were a customer that just had a 10,000 word article translated, and you need to change some 200 words in it. Would you want to pay the full rate for a complete re-translation now? That's where the negotiations start.

So what I would like to know, in a theoretically perfect world, and assuming that you can't refuse to hand over the TM, is how this company pays matches, MOST especially the fuzzy ones.


Well, they have to pay the matches to someone, and that one must be willing to work for the rate offered. Their call to say, "No, I'm afraid I'm not willing to charge less than 50% for matches of at least 70%; however, I can offer to do them for...".

P.


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Christ Muktijono
Local time: 22:17
English to Indonesian
+ ...
It is a must Feb 23, 2006

If your client asks the TM, I think you have to give it. Since the translation jobs not merely give the result but also the "atribute" which follows it.

Don't wory that you gonna lost your next project. Your TM is not easy to use by the client. On my opinion, a new project will came to you soon. Only, at this new project the amount will be reduce since your client already use the TM to count the total words.


Regards,

Christ


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Rebecca Lowery  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:17
French to English
I always give the TM when asked Feb 23, 2006

I don't think it necessarily means that you are going to lose out on the next job to another translator. It is a means of reducing translation cost to the end client and if the agency is professional they usually use the same translators (where available) for any updates of these docs anyway.
You can create a TM for a particular project so you don't have to give the agency the whole of your translation memory!


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 17:17
German
+ ...
2 cts (and then some) Feb 23, 2006

I'd like to address some of the things that have come up from an agency's point of view with a few short statements reflecting our business policies:

If your translation was good, any serious and professional agency WILL return to you with future jobs.

Granting heavy discounts for fuzzy matches doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, either.
There's some debate going on here at my company as to how valuable exactly fuzzy matches are, but I think my colleagues here and I agree that anything below 75% match quality isn't worth a whole lot and no discount should be demanded from the translator.

Our purchase orders always ask for the delivery of the uncleaned files, cleaned files and TM.

Why the TM?
Because we want to have an archive of the TM here, in case the translator's PC is ever affected by a virus or other event that would destroy or damage the TM. Also, this allows us to precisely calculate the cost of new jobs by analyzing the client's files with the TM. And lastly, if the translator is extremely busy and cannot possibly do a specific translation for us within the given timeframe and we still have to satisfy our client, we will grudginly eventually have to task someone else with the translation and give them the TM as a reference. We had a few cases like this in the past where the translator even recommended someone who he felt would be equally competent - and still, we always return to that translator, because he's just good.

Why uncleaned files?
Because the uncleaned files allow for easy proofreading & editing once you've gotten used to their format. It allows search & replace and when we're done, we can just clean up the documents and thus update the TM. If we implemented our revisions in the cleaned files instead, the TM would not reflect this change and in the worst case, mistakes we fixed would return in the next translation. No good.

Why cleaned files?
In a perfect world, the cleaned files would be such that they can be delivered without alterations to the client. Also, should we encounter any problems during the cleanup (e.g. if the translator screwed up the Trados tags through improper handling), we can just proofread, correct and deliver the cleaned files.

Why don't we just align the original files & clean files?
Come on - if you've ever aligned a big Word file, you know it's not something you "just do", between bites. Aligning is an outright pain in the neck, can be very time-consuming and is inherently error-prone. If the translator already has a TM that he/she created just for us, why can't we just have that?

Best regards,
Benjamin

[Edited at 2006-02-23 13:19]


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Monika Coulson  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:17
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
+ ...
Thanks Benjamin Feb 23, 2006

Dear Benjamin,
Thank you for giving an insight from the other side of the pond; very helpful indeed!

Monika

tectranslate wrote:

I'd like to address some of the things that have come up from an agency's point of view with a few short statements reflecting our business policies


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