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Why does Trados change fonts?
Thread poster: Maribel Escalada
Maribel Escalada
Local time: 22:59
English to Spanish
+ ...
Mar 13, 2006

In some texts when I open a new segment, the font suddenly changes to Times New Roman and I have to change the font in every sentence. Does anybody now why and how to repair it?

[Edited at 2006-03-13 11:15]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:59
English to German
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More details, please - use the forum search Mar 13, 2006

Hi Maribel,
Welcome to the forum.

When posting in this forum, you are shown a note highlighted in a red box:

IMPORTANT: When asking for help, please quote the full version number of each software package that is relevant to your posting. Thank you.

We mean it...

Regarding your problem, you will find numerous discussions, explanations and suggested workarounds - just use the forum search function to search for "change font" in this forum.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:59
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
This is not Trados, what is causing font change Mar 13, 2006

but only bad fromatting of your documents.
Please check, if the styles in your document do match the formatting in the text.
Very often the documents are formatted manually, overriding the settings in the styles. When you use Trados and close the segment both Trados and Word try to restore the original formatting of the text, based on the style.

This has been discussed here in this forum on numerous occassions. Please be so kind and use the search function.

Please also refer to Word help, how to use styles.

Regards
Jerzy


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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Reproduce the issue without TRADOS? Mar 13, 2006

Hi,

Regarding this font change problem (which some times also involves character corruption), I have always heard that the problem lies in the document formatting and in MS Word but not in TRADOS.

My question is: How can I show this problem to someone who does not have TRADOS? Is there anyway to reproduce this kind of problems in a pure MS Word situation? I wan't to show this issues to the authors but I really cannot reproduce this problem without TRADOS.

What I mean to say, if I tell an author that bad formatting in their document is causing problems, they ask for evidence. If the only evidence I can show is that TRADOS changes the fonts and corrupts the characters, then they say that it is a TRADOS problem. They just cannot see why it is an MS Word problem because they cannot reproduce this behaviour.

Thanks!

Daniel


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:59
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
You can Mar 13, 2006

What you need is to select a part of text in Word and then press CTRL+(SPACE BAR). This forces Word to set all font attributes to those, which are set in the style.

For example: the text is Arial 12 point. The style says Times New Roman 10 points, italic. When you select such text and press CTRL+(SPACE BAR), the text will change from Arial to TNR, according to the formatting.
This does not depend from Trados in any way.

But this should be obvious to anyone - if you say the text does not match the style used, so you only need to compare the real formatting of the text with the formatting defined by the style. If you do not know, what styles are and how to use them, please refer to Word help. Help in Word belongs to the best you can find in any software. It is interactive, very good writen and very good explained.

Regards
Jerzy

PS
This is neither Word nor Trados problem, as this behaviour is caused by misformatting. I know you cannot go to your customer and say that to him, but in most cases (well, there are some cases, when font is changed although the formatting is right, but this is a very different story) the user is the reason.
If you want to omit all troubles with formating use TAG Editor.

[Edited at 2006-03-13 10:25]


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Maribel Escalada
Local time: 22:59
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Question solved Mar 13, 2006

As I could checked thanks to the answers, the problem is just a question of style. I mean, the text, for example, is in Arial, but it has a style which is configured in Times New Roman, so when the segment is opened it changes to the configured style. There is a kind of incoherence between the font an the style used (incorrect formatting). That's a way you can show to your client.
The way to solve it is to change the style according to your font, it really works, and Trados doesn't mess fonts.

[Edited at 2006-03-13 10:41]


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 22:59
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
THANKS a million, Jerzy! Mar 13, 2006

I've been trying to work this one out too... with a regular client who is usually very helpful, but I have not succeeded in explaining what the problem was - or why it happened.

I'm printing out this forum, and I'll look through some of the problem texts (it doesn't happen every time).

Have a nice week!



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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not really but thanks! Apr 12, 2006

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

What you need is to select a part of text in Word and then press CTRL+(SPACE BAR). This forces Word to set all font attributes to those, which are set in the style.

For example: the text is Arial 12 point. The style says Times New Roman 10 points, italic. When you select such text and press CTRL+(SPACE BAR), the text will change from Arial to TNR, according to the formatting.
This does not depend from Trados in any way.


Thanks Jerzy but I'm afraid that that's not the way Trados works.

a) When you press CTRL+SPACEBAR, Word removes all internal formatting and applies the paragraph style. It removes manual formatting and character styles. Trados, on the other hand, does not remove manual formatting nor character styles.


If you run the Trados macro in the template line by line, you will notice that Trados does nothing of the sort. At some point it copies and pastes the text, causing sometimes the format changes.

b) If you take a document which causes formatting problems in Trados and do the CTRL + SPACEBAR thing, you don't get the same effects. With CTRL + SPACEBAR you never get character corruption nor you get the Mincho font. (and I mean character corruptiong caused by formatting, not because of problems in the TM or in the PC settings).


But this should be obvious to anyone - if you say the text does not match the style used, so you only need to compare the real formatting of the text with the formatting defined by the style.


This is obvious to anyone who knows how MS Word should be used properly. If I tell a customer that they should use format in a more structured way, they answer things like: "it looks fine here, I can replace the text in my document using characters from other languages and they display OK. Why does Trados have problems with this?"

And if they ask, "How can I check if the next document I send is going to cause problems?" Then I don't know what to tell them beyond: "use styles properly" but I would like to be able to say, "Open your document, type some text in Russian overwriting it and then reapply the style" (or something else, this is what I would be looking for) "If you don't get any format change then Trados will not have problems.



This is neither Word nor Trados problem, as this behaviour is caused by misformatting. I know you cannot go to your customer and say that to him, but in most cases (well, there are some cases, when font is changed although the formatting is right, but this is a very different story) the user is the reason.


Yes, I know but I can't prove it to anyone who does not use Trados! And I have to say I find it annoying becaue the problem only appears with the combination of Word and Trados.

If you use Wordfast, this does not happen because it does not store formatting information in the TM. I still prefer to fight formatting issues from time to time than having no formatting in the TM.

And then, TagEditor is not always an suitable alternative for Word documents...

Ah well, thanks for trying, anyway!

Daniel


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:59
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
@Daniel Apr 13, 2006

In general you are right.
Nevertheless, the changes result due to the copy and paste process INCLUDING the font information - the text is pasted in Word WITH formatting information, so then Word applies for example SimSun, when it detects an Asian language and "strange" (it means non-ASCII) characters in it. As Polish belongs to extended subset of Arial, for Word this means a double byte font will be necessary and so it changes it. At least this is how I understand the problem.
As for the font and character changing: with very few exceptions I always succeeded when I changed the styles so, that they matched the formatting in the document. The recent versions of Trados (6.5 and upwards) are far better in this issue, so font changes occur only rarely. What causes a real problem is a font mixture in one sentence (ie Arial and Arial Black), as this almost always causes the font change of a whole sentence, mostly to the font which is set "over" (ie Arial Black for some words). For such documents Tageditor seems to be the best solution. I don´t know how Wordfast would behave on such text.

And I do understand, that one cannot tell the customer to use styles properly. Sometimes they don´t use the styles properly, but still write "do not change any styles"! Well, then the only way is Tageditor. As it does not use rtf as intermediate formatting the results are very good.

Regards
Jerzy


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Shuilien
Local time: 22:59
Russian to English
+ ...
It would be good if this were true... Jan 24, 2008

The above is not true, at least in versions 3.0 - 7.0

I have a reference normal.dot template where all TNR has been removed and default font is Tahoma.

I will copy-paste text into a new word document from notepad (to ensure no styles are pasted into Word).

I will also check font replacement settings in Trados to ensure nothing is replaced.

Then I will open and close a segment, and Trados WILL change font to TNR on certain occasions.

I have been trying to solve this for years, and have not been able to find an 'all-inclusive' solution yet.

This miserable behavior is one single reason I am and will not be willing to pay for this software - until Trados / SDL developers find out how to write Word macros in such a way that they handle styles correctly. This one single problem exists since last millenium and they are not able to do ANYTHING about it. Poor development, I say.


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Rowan Morrell  Identity Verified
New Zealand
Local time: 08:59
Member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
One Possible Workaround Jan 30, 2008

I've got a file all in Arial that TRADOS insists on changing to Times New Roman. Not the first time this has happened, and certainly won't be the last. I do think it's a TRADOS problem as much as a Word one. However, one way I've figured to cause minimal disruption and annoyance is to simply let TRADOS do its thing with the font changing, then just highlight the whole text after cleanup and change it all back to Arial. That only takes a couple of seconds. No need to fiddle about with TagEditor or templates that way. It would be better if TRADOS kept the original font, and I think the developers could have found a way for it to do this if they had really bothered. But failing that, my solution of changing the whole font back when you're done probably works as well as anything.

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Phu Nguyen  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 03:59
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
I have the same problem May 6, 2008

I have the same problem and I don't know how to correct it. It waste so much time for me to change the font like the original.

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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:59
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Have you checked styles, language settings and so on? May 6, 2008

And why do you not use Tagedtitor?
Again - it is not really Trados, what causes the fonts to change, but a very unlucky coincidence of style, font and laguage settings in Word.


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Anton Konashenok  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:59
Russian to English
+ ...
There is a simple way out Jul 3, 2008

If the fonts are changed when you translate the text with Trados interactively, just keep translating as if nothing had happened. Once you have finished translating and populated your TM, do NOT save your work - have Trados translate the file automatically instead (by using Tools>Translate). It will translate the text using the TM you have just created, and the fonts will stay the same.
Of course, this won't work on the text segments you have rearranged manually, but other than that, everything will be fine.

[Edited at 2008-07-03 10:55]


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Anton klsp
Local time: 22:59
Auto translation seem to work Jun 5, 2009

Anton Konashenok wrote:

If the fonts are changed when you translate the text with Trados interactively, just keep translating as if nothing had happened. Once you have finished translating and populated your TM, do NOT save your work - have Trados translate the file automatically instead (by using Tools>Translate). It will translate the text using the TM you have just created, and the fonts will stay the same.
Of course, this won't work on the text segments you have rearranged manually, but other than that, everything will be fine.

[Edited at 2008-07-03 10:55]


Once again I'm back checking out this forum - after spending 5 hours last night correcting the fonts of a project that was just finished, so I felt that I had to comment on this issue.

You are correct. Your suggestion does seem to work.
I used the auto translation in Workbench like you said, and the result actually looks fine!

The problem is that I got an unclean file, which Ill have to clean up.
And as soon as I do the clean up, the font change to Times New Roman!

So is it really true that this is a problem in JUST Word?


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