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"At least one tag is missing in the target segment"
Thread poster: Natalia Lis

Natalia Lis  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to French
+ ...
May 15, 2006

...do you still want to continue.

I have a large file in Trados 6.5.5 and I get this message a lot. In fact I got it even when I started. It's a .isc file and I have no way to check what the target will look like (or do I?). I'm continuing with the translation but I'm afraid I create something very messy. Is it very bad? Can it be ignored or fixed?

(I searched the forum for an answer but the existing posts did not really answer my worries)


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 15:44
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
You must enter the same tags in the target text May 15, 2006

This message appears, because you have not inserted all the tags from the source text into the target text.

When you look at the source text, there a small gray symbols with some text/code written inside - these are the tags. These must be copy/pasted into the target text in the right places to keep the formating of the source text.

If you have successfully copy/pasted all tags into the target text, you will not get this message anymore.

If you deliver a file with no tags in it, I would guess that the client would not be too happy, since you may have actually stripped all formating, symbols etc. from the source text.

I hope this helps.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 16:44
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Very common indeed May 15, 2006

The best way to avoid this message is to copy the source segment into the target segment and translate the strings between the segments, moving the segments to the right place or if one of them is not needed in the target put it to the end of the segment behind the full-stop.
Or you could switch off in Workbench the function for comparing the tags. That will make it much easier for you but perhaps much trouble at the dtp-end of the process.
When translating from German to Finnish I have usually lots of "z.(tag)B." or "e.(tag)g." in English, because they want a none-breakable space between the two abbriviations. In Finnish the abbriavation is "esim." and has no space. I finally got tired of this, because every time a had to move the excessive tag to the end, that I stopped doing it.

Generally speaking the problem lies in the believe that all translations have to use the same style of formatting, which is simply not true. In order to get a document formatted correctly a native typesetter should do the job and translators only translate text, or the translator should know the typesetting conventions for his/her language and change the formatting accordingly nad deliver a readily formatted file for printing.
This Trados-process however forces us to violate even simple rules of typesetting. In German telephone numbers are grouped in two, whereas in Finnish they are often grouped in four or not grouped at all. That would mean I have to put nonbreakable space after every second digit in German, but it would result in an error message in TE.

Hope you find the right decision!

Regards

Heinrich


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Natalia Lis  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I tried to analyze the tags and they seem ok to me... May 15, 2006

PCovs wrote:


When you look at the source text, there a small gray symbols with some text/code written inside - these are the tags. These must be copy/pasted into the target text in the right places to keep the formating of the source text.

I hope this helps.


Thanks,
OK, but what I do not understand is why sometimes it is correct and other times it's not? Usually Trados does it automatically so why do I get errors even when I see the same tags at the beginning and the end of the segment?

And I'm afraid that if I start doing it manually I will make it even worst...Are there any documents that could teach me more about tags and how to recognise whether they are correct or not?


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 15:44
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
Didn't know TE could do that May 15, 2006

Anyway, if you have a fuzzy match, the tags in the proposed translation may look the same as the ones in the new source segment, but for some reason they are not (perhaps if you cannot see the full tag text, they may look the same), so you must copy/paste the new tags into the target.

I don't know this function where TE automatically inserts the correct tags?

You can read more about the tags in the TE Help section.


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Natalia Lis  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Do I have to always copy tags? May 15, 2006

PCovs wrote:


I don't know this function where TE automatically inserts the correct tags?

You can read more about the tags in the TE Help section.


My...Maybe I'm completely lost. When I hit the "open/get" command I see: tags pointing to the right - source segment, target segment - corresponding tags pointing to the left.

I always assumed I just have to enter the tranlation in the target segment and hit the close/open/get command and continue...Normally I don't copy/insert any tags. I do not even touch them.

After that what I see is: tags pointing to the right, little "TU" tag, source segment, "0" tag, target segment translated, "TU" tag, corresponding tags pointing to the left. No message errors most of the time. Is this wrong? I used it with HTML files and they look ok.


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 15:44
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
Internal tags only. May 15, 2006

Hi Natalia,

I believe that what TE is asking for when writing this error message are the internal tags.

The tags you see, I believe, are the external tags (not in the coloured source segment, when you open a TU), am I right?

The tags that you need to copy/paste are the internal tags, which appear within the coloured source segment.

The error message is there to help you remember to copy/paste all the internal tags from the source segment.


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Natalia Lis  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you so much! May 15, 2006

Mamy thanks! It solves the problem indeed. I'm not sure I understand all the underlying logic...but as long as there is a consistent solution I will be happy with it

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RWSTranslation
Germany
Local time: 15:44
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
Numbers May 15, 2006

Hallo,

maybe you have missing numbers in the target ?

Make a verify of your document. Then you will see the differences in the Tags with more details.

Hans


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 15:44
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
I assume you use TagEditor?... May 15, 2006

If not, then maybe it would be time to dump Word and start using TagEditor NOW. Even if it is version 6.5 something.

smo


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Natalia Lis  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Of course I'm using TE May 15, 2006

Vito Smolej wrote:

If not, then maybe it would be time to dump Word and start using TagEditor NOW. Even if it is version 6.5 something.

smo



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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 15:44
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Adjust Options/Verification to something (more) stringent May 15, 2006

So if it is TE, then adjust Options/Verification to something (more) stringent. And check with the client, how stringent they want it. They'll probably say "well, how stringent can you make it?" (sigh)

I use strict, even if it sometimes downright stupid (see previous posts). Should I try to explain to some overworked half-listening counterpart with phones ringing in the background for instance the intricacies of differences on where Slovenes, as opposed to Germans, prefer to see their verbs in a segment? Thank you, but thank you no. Even if this means I have to squeeze in some useless blanks etc.

smo

PS: be sure though the counterpart will find time to run the verify and send you a message "we were not amused" and a barrage of equally useless CMP files.

[Edited at 2006-05-15 21:40]


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Natalia Lis  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It's set on strict May 15, 2006

But how am I supposed to know where to put the tags if I cannot see the final document? So for now I just copy the English layout...

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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 15:44
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
You do see the source and target segment?! May 15, 2006

and if you copy first the source, you will also have the tags where they are supposed to stay in the target?...

[edit]Sorry for reading too fast, you do everything you can evidently.


[Edited at 2006-05-15 21:43]


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Natalia Lis  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, I see those May 15, 2006

Vito Smolej wrote:

and if you copy first the source, you will also have the tags where they are supposed to stay in the target?...

[edit]Sorry for reading too fast, you do everything you can evidently.


[Edited at 2006-05-15 21:43]


Yes I see those. What I had in mind is that this will be a pdf file. There are tables and boxes. I guess that the tags are arranged correctly for the English version, sometimes there are strings of tags in the middle of a sentence, but I am not able to see what it will look like in the French version. I mean I understand some of those, I know when one word is bolded in the english version I have to bold a word with similar meaning in the French sentence. But other times I just don't get those tags so I change nothing. And I'm afraid there are some tables and boxes that will be messy.

Does it make sense? I obviously have no long experience with TE so maybe I have some strange preconceptions.


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