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Problem with opening an XML-doc in Tag-Editor (version 7.0)
Thread poster: Eloïse Notet

Eloïse Notet  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:12
Member (2005)
German to French
+ ...
Oct 22, 2006

Hi everyone,

I am trying to open a xml-file with Tag-editor, as requested by my client.

The problem: when opening the file in Tag Editor (after selecting it directly in tag editor, or through the xml-file with "Open with", a window appears with "This doc contains the unknown DOTYPE decalaration/root element "Travelinfo". A tag settings file has not yet been defined for this doc type. Would you like to specify the settings file now?"

Then, if i select YES, a new window opens with a list: predefined HTML, pred. XSL, DITA, XLIFF, SVG etc.

When choosing one, I can read the message: "the doctype declaration from the doc and the currently selected tag settings file do not match.would you like to use this settings file anyway?"

I just clicked on YES, my text opens in Tag-editor, but I observed that the first phrases (and perhaps other ones) of my source text are missing.

Why do I get these messages? where is the problem? what can I do to obtain my whole text in Tag editor?

Thanks a lot in davance


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:12
English to German
+ ...
DTD or XML schema Oct 22, 2006

Hi Enotet,
Did you customer also provide a DTD (document type definition) file, or an XML schema? By its very nature, the structure of each XML file is uniquely defined by its author - hence, unless you create (or obtain) an .ini file that specifies the elements used, TagEditor will not be able to display the file correctly.

HTH, Ralf


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Eloïse Notet  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:12
Member (2005)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
xml-doc! Oct 22, 2006

Hallo Ralf, I only received one file: a xml-doc..

What is the best way? should I contact my client?

Or what Can I do with this file??


Thanks a lot for your answer


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Eloïse Notet  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:12
Member (2005)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
.ini?? Oct 22, 2006

How can I obtain an .ini ?

Is it difficult to generate??


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:12
English to German
+ ...
Tag Settings Wizard Oct 22, 2006

Hi again,
You can try to generate an .ini file using the Tag Settings Wizard in TagEditor (Tools - Tag Settings - New). Given the inherent customisation of XML formats, however, it's safest to obtain a DTD file or XML schema from your customer.

On a general note, you should at least have a basic understanding of the XML architecture when working on XML files.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Eloïse Notet  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:12
Member (2005)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks! Oct 22, 2006

Thanks Ralf,

I have generated a .ini. Tomorrow, I will ask my customer for these files.

It is the first time I am working with this customer. He sent me the files without mentioning before that it deals with XML-docs.

I thought that opening them with tag-editor was simplier.. but even if I did not know enough about the XML architecture, I think it is the task of my customer to send me those files or explain me how to deal with them.. I am not a computing specialist, and have unfortunately to learn "on the spot" ..


Thanks for your help


Have a good sunday!


Eloïse


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:12
English to German
+ ...
OT - skills make you competitive Oct 22, 2006

Hi again, Eloise,
Slightly OT, but I beg to disagree:


I thought that opening them with tag-editor was simplier.. but even if I did not know enough about the XML architecture, I think it is the task of my customer to send me those files or explain me how to deal with them.. I am not a computing specialist, and have unfortunately to learn "on the spot" ..

Would you also expect your customer to explain how to handle Word or PowerPoint? Making sure you have the relevant skills required to handle specific file types means you're more competitive - as a freelancer (=independent entrepreneur), I believe reponsibility for continuous professional development remains with yourself.

If the XML structure isn't too complex, chances are that TagEditor will accurately recognise tags.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Eloïse Notet  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:12
Member (2005)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I once again! Oct 22, 2006

Hi Ralf,

I think I am working with my customers on a collaboration basis. It means, I am ready to help them where I can, and they can help me where I need them. I believe that my customers know that, as a freelancer, I am not a computing specialist (even if my know-how is not as bas as it seems!! ).

Giving me an technical answer will last a few minutes. result: After ONE explanation, I will always be able to deal with this file type.. and they will be satisfied on the one hand by my willingness to learn, and in the other hand, by the quality of my work.

I could no expect of a customer to explain me how to open a file in a word, that's clear. But I know I could ask some of them about one specific functionality in word, for example..

I am "only" 26 years old, and still have a lot to learn in this business.. but there is so much to learn that I don't know how I could know everything but in practicing! (hope you understand what I mean.. my english needs improvements too )

Have a good day once again!


Eloïse


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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Also have a look at the documentation Oct 23, 2006

In addition to Ralf's suggestions, there is a document called "File Formats Reference Guide". It comes in the TRADOS CD and it includes a comprenhensive section on the translation of XML files, including how to create INI files.

In my opinion, as freelance translators we should not be expected to be XML experts but we should be expected to know everthing that's has to be known on how to translate them. And, as you you say, you do learn with time.

Daniel


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Eloïse Notet  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:12
Member (2005)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks a lot Daniel :) Oct 23, 2006

Many Thanks!

I generated yesterday the .ini .. successfully .. and received today the dtd files from the customer. I came to the same file than the one I had generated yesterday... good..

I learned something more


Have a good day


Eloïse


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xxxdgtech
Local time: 14:12
English to Hebrew
XML Schema in Tag Editor Dec 5, 2006

Hi Ralf, I saw this posting and you seem to know much about it. I have an XML schema in .xsd format and am trying to get in into Tag Editor 6.5. Can you give me a lead, a few step-by-steps so I can get it to work? I am not successful. BR, David

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi again, Eloise,
Slightly OT, but I beg to disagree:


I thought that opening them with tag-editor was simplier.. but even if I did not know enough about the XML architecture, I think it is the task of my customer to send me those files or explain me how to deal with them.. I am not a computing specialist, and have unfortunately to learn "on the spot" ..

Would you also expect your customer to explain how to handle Word or PowerPoint? Making sure you have the relevant skills required to handle specific file types means you're more competitive - as a freelancer (=independent entrepreneur), I believe reponsibility for continuous professional development remains with yourself.

If the XML structure isn't too complex, chances are that TagEditor will accurately recognise tags.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:12
English to German
+ ...
Trying to create an .ini file? Dec 5, 2006

Hi David,
dgtech wrote:

Hi Ralf, I saw this posting and you seem to know much about it. I have an XML schema in .xsd format and am trying to get in into Tag Editor 6.5. Can you give me a lead, a few step-by-steps so I can get it to work? I am not successful. BR, David

What exactly are you trying to do? I take it you're trying to create an .ini file to reflect the structure of the XML Schema, right? TE 7.x has a utility that recognises this structure - not sure if this was already supported in 6.5 (IIRC it wasn't).

You may want to have a look at KB Article 1379, which also contains a link to a utility you might want to use.

HTH, Ralf


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Stefan Gentz
Local time: 13:12
English to German
+ ...
Connecting XML with TRADOS / Tag Settings Wizard Dec 6, 2006

Hello,

I would like to add a few thoughts to this topic. Due to my experience it might be more easy to determine the elements with the Tag Settings Wizard (TSW) by analysing given xml (files) than by using a DTD or schema, because the TSW is better in deciding of what is a segment external and what is a segment internal element. As analyzing xml files you only get the elements used, you should run a second wizard for the DTD/Schema and compile the results into one ini giving higher priority to the determined elements from the xml and higher priority to the attributes determined from the DTD/Schema.

The process of creating a TRADOS-ini file for TE is basically like this:

1. Make sure that you have valid xml and a valid DTD or schema. It is important to validate the files in advance with the validating tools available because the TSW does not give a warning on invalid DTDs or Schemas (or at least I did not get warnings on invalid DTDs/Schemas in the past). Invalid DTDs / Schemas will give you incomplete tag setting ("ini") files. You might think your ini is complete and you are save to quote and/or translate. You might be very wrong with this!

2. Determine the elements used in the XML by examining the given xml, the given DTD or Schema with the TSW.

3. (See step 11.)

4. Manually go through the list of "learned" elements and check for each element if it is in terms of TRADOS an "external" (block-level) or "internal" (inline) element, i.e. does the element segment the text or not? Check for elements that have content which should not be translated.

5. Make appropriate settings for the correct data types of the prevailing element (Normal, CDATA, RCDATA, EMPTY).

6. Check for root elements. Very often clients have xml with more than one root element. TSW is quite weak in determining the correct root elements.

7. Check the attributes of the elements.
7.a Are there attributes like "translate" or similar with values like yes/true or no/false? You will need to write conditional statements to exclude not translatable text.
7.b Are there attributes that need translation (think of the "alt" attribute for the "img" element in (x)html).

8. Make appropriate settings for formatting of the element content in TE if you like that to make it more comfortable.

9. Make the necessary advanced settings like charset values, xml:lang changing etc.

10. Customize the tag toolbar for mre comfortable editing.

11. Understand and learn the xml of your client! You should understand the meaning of the elements ("tags") when you translate it. You should at least understand the meaning of the segment internal elements (e.g. your client might use elements like "b" or "i" to mark up text shown as bold or italic or elements like "term" to mark up specific terminology).

You might discuss this process with your clients and let them know that TRADOS marketing is right, when they say, that they are "XML-ready" and that you can translate XML with TRADOS. However, Ralf has hit the nail on the head: "By its very nature, the structure of each XML file is uniquely defined by its author." Therefore you will always have to run this process for "new" XML. And "new" xml is all xml where you do not have a trados ini already. For long term clients it is also very important to make sure with the client, that all changes in the xml application (e.g. added elements to the DTD/Schema) need to be communicated to you so that you can reflect this in the ini file.

As a basic recommendation I would like to add: Be careful with telling clients that processing xml is no problem unless you are sure what you are doing. You should have at least 1. a basic understanding of xml and 2. a basic understanding of the client's xml. It might be helpful to undestand that XML is not a lanuage you can learn. Let me put it this way: XML is the grammar and the client's xml is a language. You have to learn both before you can work with it seriously. Also I would like to agree to Ralf. You should not expect your client to provide a trados ini. Unless perhaps your client is a translation agency. Industry clients do not have TRADOS. They just want to get their documents translated. But you should seriously consider to make them aware of the efforts and processes to "connect" their XML to TRADOS. As this can be a very time consuming and demanding process for complex xml applications this is a job for combined xml and trados specialists and should be also taken into scheduling and financial considerations of a project.

Best Regards,
Stefan Gentz,
www.tracom.de

[Bearbeitet am 2006-12-06 17:17]


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