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Trados - cleaning up translated documents without losing source text
Thread poster: Simon Bruni

Simon Bruni  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:30
Member (2009)
Spanish to English
Nov 20, 2006

Dear Colleagues,

Does anyone know of a method for cleaning up a word document translated using trados, without losing the source text. The client wants the source and target segments on the page to match them when building their website.

Thanks for your help


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 17:30
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Thread moved Nov 20, 2006

Dear Simon,

I have moved your thread to the Trados forum.

Gianfranco


[Edited at 2006-11-20 14:59]


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 17:30
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Suggestion Nov 20, 2006

Simon Bruni wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

Does anyone know of a method for cleaning up a word document translated using trados, without losing the source text. The client wants the source and target segments on the page to match them when building their website.

Thanks for your help



Dear Simon,

the operation called "clean-up" removes the source text (and the trados tags) leaving only clean target text, therefore what you are asking for is not possible, by definition.
It is against the purpose of the clean-up operation.


To maintain the original text you may only keep an untouched copy of the original file, performing your translation on a copy of it, and then, make a further copy of this work file before clean-up, cleaning up not the work file itself but a copy of it.

To be even clearer, I always keep and advise you to keep the following 3 separate files:
  • 1. original file (source language only),
  • 2. work file (bilingual, before clean-up),
  • 3. cleaned-up file (target language only)


    To facilitate your customer in matching source and target sentences, you could use the files 1 and 3, and put them together side by side in a table structure.

    bye
    Gianfranco




    [Edited at 2006-11-20 15:12]

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  • Vauwe
    Local time: 22:30
    English to German
    + ...
    Bizarre Nov 20, 2006

    The sense of cleaning is to get rid of the source text.
    If the client wants source and target text he can

    a) put side by side the source text and your translated text
    b) use the bilingual non-cleaned file.

    I suppose you have already translated the file(s) and I guess the website contains a lot of files, so this workaround comes too late:
    You can make a table: on the left side the source text that is formatted as not translatable, on the right side again the source text this time to be translated and to be cleaned. After cleaning you should get the source text left side and the target text right side. But I wonder if this is what the client really wants.


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    Angelica Perrini  Identity Verified
    Local time: 22:30
    Member (2005)
    English to Italian
    + ...
    Agree with Gianfranco Nov 20, 2006

    I definetely agree with Gianfranco and, in fact, that's what I'm used to do when working with TRADOS.
    But ther is more. There are some translation agencies instructing (or rather, suggesting) their translators to create a directory structure made up by exactly the 3 folders mentioned by Gianfranco:
    _ Source
    _ Work folder
    _ Target
    It is common practice to e-mail translatables in both clean and uncleaned format.
    By using the above structure, you are unlikely to mix-up the two or missing any.

    My 2 cents,

    Angelica


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    Simon Bruni  Identity Verified
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 21:30
    Member (2009)
    Spanish to English
    TOPIC STARTER
    text is in tables Nov 20, 2006

    Thank you very much for your help, Gianfranco.

    My source text was presented to me in tables (a seperate table for each phrase to translate) with the Spanish (source) text in one box, and an empty box below for the English (target) text.

    In order to avoid having to copy and paste hundreds of phrases and terms individually from one document to another following the clean up, or manually delete the symbols inserted by Trados, I need a method for eliminating all of the symbols generated by Trados while retaining the original text.

    Perhaps this is an impossibility, in which case I'm in for a long night!

    Thanks again and regards,

    Simon


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    IPSO
    Spain
    Local time: 22:30
    Member (2004)
    English to Spanish
    + ...
    .BAK file Nov 20, 2006

    Of course this is possible.

    After cleaning up a document with Trados, you have the clean file (containing only translated text) and ALSO a back-up file (with .bak extension) which contains both source and translated segments.

    After cleaning up, just edit the .bak file name and extension.

    For instance, after clean-up, the output is 2 files: XXXXXX.doc and XXXXXX.bak

    Just rename the .bak file as "XXXXXX_UNCLEAN.doc" (the UNCLEAN bit is optional, it's just what I do, but you have to change the name to avoid both files having the same name - you won't be able to save them) and you'll have a file with both source and target segments.


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    Giles Watson  Identity Verified
    Italy
    Local time: 22:30
    Italian to English
    A .BAK file will have Trados tags Nov 20, 2006

    Rafael Carrasco wrote:

    Of course this is possible.

    After cleaning up a document with Trados, you have the clean file (containing only translated text) and ALSO a back-up file (with .bak extension) which contains both source and translated segments.



    This might not be quite what the customer wants if the idea is to compare the original and the translation while compiling the site because the .BAK file will still be cluttered with all the Trados tags.

    If you have DVX, exporting the translated file to a two-column RTF or HTML "External view" could enable you to offer a format that is more useful to the web designers.

    FWIW

    Giles


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    Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
    Finland
    Local time: 23:30
    Member (2003)
    Finnish to German
    + ...
    Try search and remove Nov 20, 2006

    I haven't tried this, but I would search all borders between Source and target segments and replace them by a paragraph mark. If you then copy all and paste it into an excel table you should have one column with alternating source and target. You still must remove the marks at the beginning and end in order to get a clean table.
    Good luck.
    Try to explain to you customer that this representation is very odd for the purpose of translation.

    An Excel wizard could easily program a table so that the rows of column A and B become a single column, but I'll leave it at that.

    Cheers
    Heinrich


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    Vito Smolej
    Germany
    Local time: 22:30
    Member (2004)
    English to Slovenian
    + ...
    Would a utility like this help? Nov 20, 2006

    ... convert bilingual file to a two-column word file? Or
    ... eliminate all TRADOS tags (and/or replace them with a single Tab or carriage return)?

    I'm ready to help but I am as much at a loss as the rest when it comes to understanding what is a cleaned file with a source.

    Cleaning means to 99% of us getting rid of the source segments - in your case it looks different.

    I do think the night will not be as long as you are afraid it could be. Why dont you send me a piece of the file you are working on (how it is and how you would need it eventually).

    regards

    smo

    [Edited at 2006-11-20 16:34]


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    GoodWords  Identity Verified
    Mexico
    Local time: 15:30
    Spanish to English
    + ...
    Easy method: modify the source file before translating Nov 20, 2006

    An easy way to present the source and original side-by-side is to modify the original document to contain a table with two columns. Both columns contain the source text side-by-side in parallel, repeated.

    You can do this by using Word's "text-to-table" function and making a one-column table out of the text. Then add a new column to the right. Select the entire left column, copy, and paste it into the right column.

    Mark the left-side column as "do not translate". In Déjà Vu you'd do it by selecting the left column and changing all the text to the "hidden" font; I don't know what you use in TRADOS or other CAT programs.

    Then just translate the right-side column as usual. When the final version is created, unmark the left column (which will still be in the source language).

    If the client prefers to have it in the following format:

    Source paragraph 1
    Translated paragraph 1

    Source paragraph 2
    Translated paragraph 2

    etc.

    you can similarly set up the file to be translated in this format before starting to translate:
    Source paragraph 1
    Source paragraph 1

    Source paragraph 2
    Source paragraph 2

    etc.

    Mark the first paragraph of each repeated pair as "do not translate".


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    GoodWords  Identity Verified
    Mexico
    Local time: 15:30
    Spanish to English
    + ...
    Further note Nov 20, 2006

    GoodWords wrote:

    An easy way to present the source and original side-by-side is to modify the original document to contain a table with two columns. Both columns contain the source text side-by-side in parallel, repeated.

    You can do this by using Word's "text-to-table" function and making a one-column table out of the text. Then add a new column to the right. Select the entire left column, copy, and paste it into the right column.

    Mark the left-side column as "do not translate". In Déjà Vu you'd do it by selecting the left column and changing all the text to the "hidden" font; I don't know what you use in TRADOS or other CAT programs.


    I wrote the above before I saw that part of the job of creating the table is already done for you by the client.

    So just copy the source text into the empty box below in each case, and mark the first box of each duplicated pair as "do not translate".

    [Edited at 2006-11-20 18:08]


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    Vito Smolej
    Germany
    Local time: 22:30
    Member (2004)
    English to Slovenian
    + ...
    the important point being... Nov 20, 2006

    So just copy the source text into the empty box below in each case, and mark the first box of each duplicated pair as "do not translate"


    "do not translate" - one can namely identify some text as "do not translate"able by just assigning this format to the selected text.


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    gianfranco  Identity Verified
    Brazil
    Local time: 17:30
    Member (2001)
    English to Italian
    + ...
    Protect the left column and translate it on the right cells Nov 20, 2006

    Simon Bruni wrote:
    My source text was presented to me in tables (a seperate table for each phrase to translate) with the Spanish (source) text in one box, and an empty box below for the English (target) text.

    In order to avoid having to copy and paste hundreds of phrases and terms individually from one document to another following the clean up, or manually delete the symbols inserted by Trados, I need a method for eliminating all of the symbols generated by Trados while retaining the original text.


    Dear Simon,

    I'm coming back to this thread only now. It seems to me that your problem could be quite simple to solve! Just try the following:


  • 1. Copy the source text on the cells on the right. It should be fairly quick to do, unless the file has a complex structure...

  • 2. Protect from translation all the cells on the left applying to them the so called "External style" (its real name is tw4winExternal). This style is available in the Trados template.
    The right side, left unprotected (without 'external style') will be translated.

  • 3. When you finish the translation, just clean-up (make a copy first, as usual) and you will obtain on the right side only the target text.

  • 4. Remove the 'external style' and you are left with the original text on the left cells (because it was protected, ignored by Trados during your translation) and the target text on the right cells, as it will be left behind after the clean-up operation.

    * * * *

    The same final two columns layout can be also created after the job is completed, but you can preserve the two columns even during translation, as described above.

    Now you can choose how to proceed, and your choice may depend on the actual layout of your document, which is unknown to us.


    bye
    Gianfranco



    [Edited at 2006-11-20 18:40]

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  • Kevin Fulton
    United States
    Local time: 16:30
    German to English
    The Yahoo Trados website has a macro Nov 20, 2006

    There's a macro to display source/target text in Word in 2 columns (make sure you copy the entire URL; I don't know if it will fit on one line here).
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/TW_users/files/Macros/Macros%20from%20Users/

    This may point you in the right direction.


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