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Trados 7 Tag Editor help
Thread poster: mopc
mopc  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:39
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Jan 30, 2007

Hi, this is my first translation using Trados (I had only used Wordfast before) and this client sent me several files to be translated on the Tag Editor.

The thing is that each line has symbols like fc, hmk, hh between words. What is that? So far I have clicked on "go to next placeable" so as to choose the right symbol but this takes way to long.

How do I deal with that? What exactly is this tag editor? Thanks!


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Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:39
Italian to English
RT(F)M... Jan 30, 2007

mopc wrote:

Hi, this is my first translation using Trados (I had only used Wordfast before) and this client sent me several files to be translated on the Tag Editor.

The thing is that each line has symbols like fc, hmk, hh between words. What is that? So far I have clicked on "go to next placeable" so as to choose the right symbol but this takes way to long.

How do I deal with that? What exactly is this tag editor? Thanks!


Hi mopc,

Sorry if the title of this message is a little brusque but working in TagEditor is very different from churning out a Word file in Trados Workbench (or WordFast). For a start, you will find source tags in amongst the text that you have to translate. You can ignore them for translation purposes but they have to be lined up in the final text (TagEditor has a verification tool for this).

First of all, have a look at the FileFormatsRef_en.pdf file in the SDL International\T2006_FL\Doc\English folder of your Trados installation. This should help you to get an idea of what you have to do (the workflows for Word documents are on page 196, for example). What you actually have to do will depend, of course, on the type of file you are translating (Word, Excel, or something more exotic).

Once you have that straightened out, you will be able to ask useful questions, either to your customer or to this forum.

But I feel for you. It really is bad luck that your first Trados translation should be in TagEditor, and not Workbench!

Suerte,

Giles


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mopc  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:39
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
what the hell is suerte? Jan 31, 2007

Well thanks, my files are ttx format. But how do I do the translation quickly enough? Do I have to go on picking the symbols on by one?

What is exactly the tag editor for???


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:39
English to German
+ ...
Please refer to the Tutorials, and the documentation Jan 31, 2007

Hi, "mopc",
mopc wrote:

Well thanks, my files are ttx format. But how do I do the translation quickly enough? Do I have to go on picking the symbols on by one?

What is exactly the tag editor for???


TagEditor is the Trados editing environment for tagged file formats (such as HTML or XML, as well as converted DTP format such as Quark Xpress). What you're calling "symbols" are tags: their meaning depends on the source format of the files.

On a general note, you will need to take the effort to get acquainted with TagEditor (as with any other software application you're using); I suggest to start with the Tutorials which are installed with the software.

Best regards,
Ralf


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:39
English to French
+ ...
For starters Jan 31, 2007

Hi mopc

Here is something to get you started quickly on TagEditor. When you open a segment in TagEditor, start by copying the source segment to the target segment - to do this, you have to click the black arrow pointing to the right or press Alt+Ins. This will copy the whole source segment, including the tags (the little grey rectangles and pentagrams in the sentences you are having trouble with). Now, translate the sentence but make sure that whatever word was included between a pair of tags will still be between those tags when you are done translating it. Once you are happy with your translation, just move on to the next segment (by clicking the black arrow pointing up and down between red parentheses or by pressing Alt+Num+) and repeat the same procedure. This should help you to get going on your first assignment without having to go through all the documentation, as time is always of the essence.

By the way, tags are simply for text formatting - the exception to this are FrameMaker files, I am working on those right now :'( - and if you expand them (by clicking the biggest of the three blue diamonds on the toolbar), you can actually see what they are for. Of course, sometimes they are hard to understand, depending on the original format of the file you are translating. But eventually, you'll get the hang of it. The important thing is simply to keep the tags where they originally were. The logic will follow with experience

In the meantime, try this tip. I found, when I first started out with TagEditor, that it helps to get going on TagEditor without having to fully understand everything you are doing.

All the best!

[Edited at 2007-01-31 11:14]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:39
English to German
+ ...
This may cause problems Jan 31, 2007

Hi Viktoria,
The 'quick start' approach you describe carries some inherent risks. You may be prepared to accept these as you go along - but you (as well as your customer) should be aware of them.


By the way, tags are simply for text formatting - the exception to this are FrameMaker files

...and XML files, for instance, where tags also define the document structure - to place them correctly, you need to understand them.

The important thing is simply to keep the tags where they originally were.

Not necessarily, as the structure of the target sentence might differ, and boldface or italics might be required elsewhere.

In the meantime, try this tip. I found, when I first started out with TagEditor, that it helps to get going on TagEditor without having to fully understand everything you are doing.

Personally, I find this approach worrying, not just regarding TagEditor.

Best regards,
Ralf


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:39
English to French
+ ...
I see where you are getting at, Ralf Jan 31, 2007

It is true that the solution I propose isn't infallible. However, we have a person here who obviously lacks time to read the documentation. I think a tip such as I propose is better than nothing. After all, mopc didn't come to the forum with his question for nothing.

All the arguments you raise make sense. However, they are only the tip of the iceberg. If we were to take our time to explain all the subtleties of working with tags, mopc would sit in front of his computer for several days reading us - and he wouldn't get any work done.

I used this very same method to learn to use TagEditor - I think not many of us can say they got a course on it before using it. Yes, it took longer and I did eventually bump into problems - but I learned through trial and error. When I was done translating my first TagEditor file, I went on to proof it - and by then, I had a basic understanding of what I was doing, so I was able to correct all my mistakes before handing the file in. I got no complaints.


mopc wrote:

The thing is that each line has symbols like fc, hmk, hh between words. What is that? So far I have clicked on "go to next placeable" so as to choose the right symbol but this takes way to long.

How do I deal with that?



I think in mopc's case, the only solution right now (so s/he has enough time to produce a translation that will be satisfactory for his/her client) is hands-on learning, and that's what I am trying to help with. Inserting tags takes too long? There is another, simpler way to insert them, and I was simply letting him/her know.

I am offering all the help I can. That's all. Can you propose a better solution?

[Edited at 2007-01-31 10:59]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:39
English to German
+ ...
Quick fix vs. proper preparation Jan 31, 2007

Hi Viktoria,
I appreciate your efforts in helping out. What I'm saying is that mopc should take the time to get acquainted with the tools used. (Of course, this goes beyond TagEditor.)


It is true that the solution I propose isn't infallible. However, we have a person here who obviously lacks time to read the documentation. I think a tip such as I propose is better than nothing. After all, mopc didn't come to the forum with his question for nothing.

Understood.
However, the original posting indicates not only that mopc did not read the documentation (nor did he/she check the Tutorials). More than that: the concept of tags would appear to be unknown.

All the arguments you raise make sense. However, they are only the tip of the iceberg. If we were to take our time to explain all the subtleties of working with tags, mopc would sit in front of his computer for several days reading us - and he wouldn't get any work done.

The issue I'm raising is whether you should accept a job to be completed with a certain tool if you are not (yet) capable to handle the tool. Personally, I don't think so - what's more, I would never outsource a job to be done in TagEditor unless the translator knows how to use it.

I used this very same method to learn to use TagEditor - I think not many of us can say they got a course on it before using it. Yes, it took longer and I did eventually bump into problems - but I learned through trial and error. When I was done translating my first TagEditor file, I went on to proof it - and by then, I had a basic understanding of what I was doing, so I was able to correct all my mistakes before handing the file in. I got no complaints.

The difference is that you were evidently able to recognise tags and their function and/or meaning - which significantly reduces the risk to an acceptable level.

I think in mopc's case, the only solution right now is hands-on learning, and that's what I am trying to help with.

I am offering all the help I can. That's all. Can you propose a better solution?

Not necessarily - my suggestion would be to get prepared before taking on an assignment, rather than trying to learn a complex tool 'on the fly'.

Best regards,
Ralf


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:39
English to French
+ ...
It's too late for that Jan 31, 2007

While I agree, Ralf, that it is best to get familiar with tools before using them for contracts, I think in this case it is too late to think about that. I am sure mopc realized what you are saying before s/he even posted the question, and I don't think s/he came here to be told that (that would be no help in this situation). Nonetheless, mopc is in a situation s/he wants to get out of the nice way. All that's left to do is to make the best of it. Mopc needs a start - and I am trying to help with that.

Now, I can only hope others will post some useful information that will help mopc to learn to use TagEditor just fast enough so that s/he can deliver a satisfactory file to his/her client.

All the best!

[Edited at 2007-01-31 11:13]


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Piotr Bienkowski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 16:39
Member (2005)
English to Polish
+ ...
There is a keyboard shortcut for tags Jan 31, 2007

mopc wrote:

Hi, this is my first translation using Trados (I had only used Wordfast before) and this client sent me several files to be translated on the Tag Editor.

The thing is that each line has symbols like fc, hmk, hh between words. What is that? So far I have clicked on "go to next placeable" so as to choose the right symbol but this takes way to long.

How do I deal with that? What exactly is this tag editor? Thanks!


Similarly to Wordfast, placeables/tags in TagEditor can be inserted using keyboard shortcuts. I'm sure these shortcuts are described in the help file.

With keyboard shortcuts inserting tags isn't slow at all.

Piotr


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mopc  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:39
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks! Jan 31, 2007

Thank you all for the help! After taking the tutorial and reading your comments, I am capable now of proceedig with the translation.

However.............. the problem is that my file is WAY too tag-heavy.

Each sentence is followed by some five, ten, fifteen tags, sometimes different bundles of tags separated by commas.

By clicking the "next placeable" button I am indeed capable of inserting them properly into the target segment, but one by one. And sometimes, inexplicably, the program shows a dialog box saying "one or some of the tags aren't closed. Are you sure you want to proceed?" even if the tags are exactly like in the source segment.

That forces me to erase all the tags in the target segment and recreate them one by one using the black arrows.

That takes longer than the translation itself!!

Is there a way to automatize things?


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