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Trados - Open letter to SDL
Thread poster: Yolande Haneder
Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:27
German to French
+ ...
May 19, 2007

Dear SDL,

As many other translators I would wish Trados to work on Linux. So far, I managed to go through some part of the installation, I am however stuck because of the .NET problem. Could you develop someday the .NET as a not compulsory option to install so that one could use the mono version of .NET for open source.

I think one may be able to go around the other problems but not the problem with .NET 2 because even though mono is installed to be able to process .NET 2, Trados is not regognzising it and giving me all the time a R6034 error.

I would be happy to pay for such a patch too.

Yolande


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:27
German to English
+ ...
Trados - Open letter to SDL May 19, 2007

Yolande,

Trados doesn't run on Linux.

Are you using an emulator, like VMWare? Or are you trying to do this on WINE or Crossover Office? You probably need to explain this to SDL. When I last tried to install SDLX on Crossover Office (with mixed success) and asked SDL's technical department if they were interested in helping, their reply was simply "SDLX doesn't run on Linux".

Marc

[Edited at 2007-05-19 18:27]


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Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:27
English to German
+ ...
Let's sit and wait... May 19, 2007

Hello Yolande,

I am really curious to hear what SDL responds to your letter. You did send it to them directly, didn't you?

Sonja


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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:27
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I didn't send it directly May 19, 2007

Directly they told me it should work on an emulator so I am not expecting to find the right partner.

I just need some choice
-download Microsoft Framework 2.0
-Use mono .NET services

Without .NET is the installation from Trados OK (registering fine) but crashing when one want to use it (because I have not gone to to the licensing step).
Trados must be installed 2 times: once normaly (registering, thus creating the T2007 directory)
Once in repair mode (once you added the missing .dll because Linux is not automatically copying the .dll)


Problem is, you can't choose NOT TO install SDLX, installation from SDLX is crashing because of such and error and immediately terminating. I can't go to the licensing step.

I have been looking to go round the problem (even installing mono for windows under Wine)

[Edited at 2007-05-19 08:56]


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Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:27
English to German
+ ...
As expected May 19, 2007

Yolande Haneder wrote:

Directly they told me it should work on an emulator so I am not expecting to find the right partner.



Well, I think that probably means they just don't care about Linux users.

My experience with SDLX Trados is similar, just that I didn't even try to run Trados - I wanted SDLX. It actually does run, with the exception that I cannot license my copy (probably the same problem as you have), which results in SDLX running in demo mode only. But it seems to be stable, at least over here.

Sonja


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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:27
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Using wine May 19, 2007

I am trying to use wine to Trados on OpenSuse

I got around some of the problems but I have the feeling I am going in circle.

I have error R6034, trying to load atl80.dll in an inappropriate way.


1 possibility.
Then I try to install NET .2, I have the message I need to update or install IE6 because of a BITS problem.
Getting the Service.msc from my (licenced) windows version is not working.
2 possibiliy.
running mono from Linux --> not regognized from Trados, still crashing.

3. Possibility. trying to install NET 1. Tell me I have to install at least IE 5.1 (which I don't have - the only one I have is Explorer 5 that we got as present to one microsof presentation we visited in 1999. IE does not install).
When asking to install NET.1 through another method (advised for Linux), I am told to install mono for windows. Mono for windows is crashing on wine.

4. Installing IE adapted for Linux. Not recognized as IE installation in step 1.

5. IE6 on wine -> crashing. IE7 on wine ->crashing (of course)

There are then 2 solutions: either SDL works on adapting for mono, (C++ is installing fine, Java2 is installing fine, Office 2003 is now working fine so I may get around) or Linux people work on a way to get an answer of the BITS problem or installing IE on wine.

The licensing is crashing because of a library check in a .msi file.
Once I am so far, and since I got the taste of changing msi files to install office 2003, I may try to remove the line to see what happens.


I have 3 years to find an answer.







[Edited at 2007-05-19 16:56]

[Edited at 2007-05-19 16:57]


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 03:27
English to French
+ ...
Another request May 19, 2007

I wish they could fix TagEditor so it can handle non-breaking spaces (very important when translating into French).

I do agree, though, that it would be nice to get to use SDL's products on other platforms as well. In a way, they are indirectly forcing me to use Windows. This is the main reason why I haven't yet made the switch to the Mac of my dreams (I HATE PCs!).

Let's see what they will have to say (and thank them for the latest improvements as well, which came in handy for many of us).


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Piotr Bienkowski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:27
Member (2005)
English to Polish
+ ...
There are other CATs that run on Linux May 20, 2007

Both for commercial products and free. Heartsome Translation Suite, OmegaT/omegat (these two are 'forks' of the same product), open language tools, Transolution.

Heartsome XLIFF Editor can handle Trados TTX format.

HTH

Piotr


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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:27
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I know there are other products May 20, 2007

However, I am running an agency too and I can't start to play around with OmegaT or the likes. I will have to run Trados on windows and can only switch for the productive stage to OpenOffice once Trados get working (until then I will be probably installing and uninstalling each version of wine)

These are partial solutions for users who are actually translating.
So far not only these are offering the basic functions but if I want filter to process more complicated files, I will have to add tools the one after the other. In my view, Trados is much more convenient, especially if I want someday run in the way of adding software localization tools that have special filters for Trados.

I will seriously rather put my energy in finding the applet enabling any use of Trados under Wine than multiplying tools for each format.

Like Marc said "OmegaT is not for me" since I love learning thing by clicking everything and seeing around what's working or not.
I hardly bother to read instructions and this had not changed with Linux. I learnt to use it by installing under instruction the first softwares and now I am playing around once I understood the underlying logic.



[Edited at 2007-05-20 07:53]


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:27
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
In which way does Tageditor not handle NBSP? May 20, 2007

Viktoria Gimbe wrote:

I wish they could fix TagEditor so it can handle non-breaking spaces (very important when translating into French).

I do agree, though, that it would be nice to get to use SDL's products on other platforms as well. In a way, they are indirectly forcing me to use Windows. This is the main reason why I haven't yet made the switch to the Mac of my dreams (I HATE PCs!).

Let's see what they will have to say (and thank them for the latest improvements as well, which came in handy for many of us).

This is similarly important, when translating into Polish and in my case I do not have problems wit non-breaking spaces.
Please open a new thread abut this - this seems to be an interesting case.

Jerzy


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CELC Inc
Local time: 16:27
Japanese to English
+ ...
Bad term recognition in MT for Japanese and other Asian languages May 20, 2007

For years, translators of Asian languages like myself have wept over MultiTerm's low term recognition rate with two-byte languages. In particular, mixed orthography terms are a disaster.

My previous postings on this topic include:

http://www.proz.com/post/550418

Because years are often noted with reference to the emperor's reign in Japan rather than by the Gregorian calendar, and months are numbered not named, I have a TB I set up exclusively to do the menial calculation of Japanese dates for me.

For example:
Japanese: 平成10
Japanese: H10
English: 1998

Japanese: 1月
English: January
English: Jan.

Of course, I have all of the years and months properly registered (I have triple-checked this!), and using the MT search interface in Word never fails to give me the result I want. However, Workbench's "term recognition" function never correctly "recognizes" the years.

For example:
平成10 >> 1998
平成11 >> 1998
平成12 >> 1998
平成13 >> 1998

Starting to see a pattern here? Well, I am.

The same issue arises with:
IT戦略本部 >> IT Strategic HQ

But it doesn't with 1月 (January).

So there's no discernible pattern of MT/WB's incompetence. In the case of years, I initially believed the problem to be related to the placement of the Japanese before the numerals. But when IT Strategic HQ failed as well, I began to have my doubts, since the order is reversed. Of course, this could be a difference between numerals and letters, but that isn't a particularly satisfying answer either.
On the other hand, when I thought of the numerals in the Japanese year notation as placeables that WB just couldn't comprehend because of their apparent non-correlation with the MT termbase, I was disappointed in the programming failure but at least the problem made sense. However, by this logic the "1" in 1月 (January) would also be a placeable, and should be equally confusing -- unless, of course, the answer lies in the fact that "January" has no numerals whatsoever while both "1998" and "2000" do. In other words, the numerals in the English could be the culprits.


http://www.proz.com/post/387698

Multiterm is awful at recognizing Japanese terms. (I'm sure the problem is equally bad for Chinese, though my experience is so limited I wouldn't risk a definite statement.) In fact, the correlation feature of Workbench and TagEditor is just as bad, but I can live with that.

Here's my guess as to why: I am betting that the application is looking for spaces or punctuation to demarcate the terms.

One easy example I can give to back this up is what Trados does to phone numbers:
If the # is 019-621-8145, Trados sees three placeables: 019, -621, and -8145. Clearly this indicates that the dash is treated as a word break.

Here's the problem: no spaces in Japanese.

So, what can I do to aid recognition? Is there a setting I can use in MT or Workbench/TagEditor to change this? Should I suggest that SDL do something to improve this in future releases?


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 03:27
English to French
+ ...
This HAS to be suggested to SDL May 21, 2007

This is such an elementary issue, CELC, ithas to be reported. Not only that, but I am sure this wouldn't involve extensive programming. I think maybe an add-on for Japanese could do the trick. I mentioned non-breaking spaces above, and that is also very important yet probably easy to fix.

I think with such particular software, it would be impossible for the editors to be aware of all the little details they could fix to make their product user-friendly and efficient. The only way to make sure it will soon be as close as possible to what users expect is for the users to bring these things to the editor's attention. This software is extremely complicated from the programming point of view and it would take an awful lot of input for the editor to realize what is wrong.

I say we should contact them each time there are small problems like these that make a big difference for users. In many cases, they can easily produce a fix - but if they don't know about the problem, they can't fix it, can they?


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CELC Inc
Local time: 16:27
Japanese to English
+ ...
Agreed May 22, 2007

You're absolutely right, Viktoria.

I do think it's surprising that so many issues remain in version 7 of such a popular software suite. Perhaps it's because (like me until now) users have been willing to accept that this must be the "best possible" situation.

Perhaps proz.com should host an "Open Letters" forum...?


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Piotr Bienkowski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:27
Member (2005)
English to Polish
+ ...
I know a translation agency in Poland... May 22, 2007

Yolande Haneder wrote:

However, I am running an agency too and I can't start to play around with OmegaT or the likes. (...)


...that runs almost exclusively Linux software, well they have MS Office under CrossoverOffice and that's it.

Their rates are usually better than average and it's because of them that I bought Heartsome XLIFF Editor.

They're proof that remaining afloat without Trados is possible.

Regards,

Piotr

[Edited at 2007-05-22 04:46]


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