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A TW-to-TE switch within Trados
Thread poster: Antoní­n Otáhal

Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 23:44
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
Aug 1, 2007

I started a project with the Word+Trados Workbench combination, but now it looks like a change to TagEditor processing is wanted (within SDL Trados)

It is just one big .doc file with not too much formatting.

I can imagine importing the original file to a TagEditor .ttx file and pretranslating it with the TM created in the Word+TW combination; it might work quite fine.

But perhaps one of my learned colleagues on this forum has had experience with such mid-stream change and can tell me what the best procedure should be?

Antonin


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Piotr Bienkowski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 23:44
Member (2005)
English to Polish
+ ...
There shouldn't be a problem, but... Aug 1, 2007

Antoní­n Otáhal wrote:

(...) it might work quite fine.

(...)

Antonin


If there isn't much formatting in it, you may have to add a tag here and tere.

You may also want to try the export procedure (save target as) to make sure your TTX file saves OK as DOC.

I had a nasty surprise with a big doc file which upon exporting told me "error writing breaks" (whaterver that means) and failed to export.

HTH

Piotr

[Edited at 2007-08-01 20:41]


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 23:44
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
error writing breaks Aug 1, 2007

Piotr Bienkowski wrote:

I had a nasty surprise with a big doc file which upon exporting told me "error writing breaks" (whaterver that means) and failed to export.

Piotr

[Edited at 2007-08-01 20:41]


I can you help on this one, by the way. If the paragraph marks are missing at certain places (such as section and page breaks), tageditor seems to be unable to cope with them. Adding the paragraph marks before importing the doc to ttx should help.

What I do not know is how such files are created at the first place - perhaps by conversion from some exotic formats.

Thanks for your reply.

Antonin


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:44
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Error while writing breaks Aug 1, 2007

It is a nasty error, indeed, but very easy to handle.
First, how it happens: Word allows you to insert a section break within the text, ie without adding a paragraph mark in front of it. If something is found in the file, the "error while writing breaks" will certainly occur. But also a page break or a column break without a preceeding paragraph mark causes the same error. When you try to insert a page break or a column break, Word automaticaly inserts a paragraph mark in front of the break. But... a lot of people are using copy and paste, and so the happen to insert text without a paragraph mark in front of a break. Even more, I have had a text, where someone pasted a page break into a table! It took me some time to find out why I had my "error while writing breaks".

Now how to avoid them: the easiest way is to search for all kind of breaks in the document (section, page and column break) and replace them by a paragraph mark, followed by the corresponding break. This way you make sure this particular error will not occur anymore. After you finished the translation you can easily replace all paragraph marks followed by a break with the break itself. This will ensure, that your document has exactly the same structure after translation. The more sophisticated way is to search for the breaks and look, if there is a paragraph mark preceeding them and enter paragraph marks only when necessary. This way the changes may remain in the document, as they do not influence the pagination of the document. Please also pay attention, that you need a paragraph mark between the end of a table and a break. A break directly behind a table may also cause the same error.
So far avoiding this error before you start translating. Of course after having opened the file as ttx I would reccomend to translate one sentence at the beginning of the file, one in tme middle and one at the end for test purposes and then try to save the target text to avoid nasty surprises when the text is ready...

Now what to do, when you have a file already translated and this error occurs? Well, you are quite experienced with tags, so I think this method is pefectly suitable for you.
If your ttx does not produce target file because of "error while writing breaks" you will need to change the source document in Word and modify the ttx accordingly AT THE SAME TIME.
To do so open the ttx in Tageditor and the original Word file in Word. In Word search for breaks. Look where you need to insert the paragraph mark in front of a break. Insert it. Locate exactly the same place in ttx. Copy the "paragraph mark tag" from somwhere in the document and insert it before a break tag. Do so for all occurencies of this problem.
Should you find a break within a table cell, remove it in Word, go to ttx and remove the corresponding tag there. As I'm sure you will pay attention to remove or add only the necessary tag, you should be able to repair your document this way.

Should you have any other questions regarding trouble shooting with this error, just let me know - I'll try to help.

Best regards
Jerzy


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Piotr Bienkowski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 23:44
Member (2005)
English to Polish
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Thanks! Aug 2, 2007

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

(...)
Now how to avoid them: the easiest way is to search for all kind of breaks in the document (section, page and column break) and replace them by a paragraph mark, followed by the corresponding break.

(...)


Thanks, Jerzy. This is very enlightening.

Now, TagEditor does not follow the GIGO rule, because it takes garbage in, but does not let it out!

Regards,

Piotr


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:44
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Well, it is nearly following the GIGO rule Aug 2, 2007

but does not take any garbage, to be very precise
OTOH it delivers exactly the same "sophisticated" formatting, which came in per customeers decision, unles one does some corrections on the formatting due to avoid inserting broken segments in your translation memory. This is the way I always go - just correcting only what is absolutely necessary in order not to fill my TM with gargabe.

Best
Jerzy


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Piotr Bienkowski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 23:44
Member (2005)
English to Polish
+ ...
What else to fix in a DOC? Aug 8, 2007

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

but does not take any garbage, to be very precise
OTOH it delivers exactly the same "sophisticated" formatting, which came in per customeers decision, unles one does some corrections on the formatting due to avoid inserting broken segments in your translation memory. This is the way I always go - just correcting only what is absolutely necessary in order not to fill my TM with gargabe.

Best
Jerzy


In your experience, Jerzy, what else in addition to breaks should be fixed in a DOC to feed it to TagEditor and get it safely back?

Will appreciate,

Piotr


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:44
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Usually nothing Aug 8, 2007

Mostly the break issue is the only one you will get.
Of course not all Word documents will save as ttx or even if they save as ttx, they won't save back. But in my impression the filter for doc files has been fairly improved since it was implemented. I use the Tageditor-workflow for almost all Word files now, but I do not experience so many problems as before.
So in general I cannot remember what causes additional problems, beside the breaks issue.

Jerzy


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