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Is it possible to combine Trados and Dragon Naturally Speaking?
Thread poster: Ken Fagan
Ken Fagan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
Oct 23, 2007

In other words, is it possible to run an original source doc through Trados and THEN dictate the translation (in Word)?

Many thanks!


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:34
Dutch to English
+ ...
Not sure if If I understand you correctly ..... Oct 23, 2007

Hi Ken,

........ are you asking whether you can use Dragon segment by segment in Trados as you go along, dictating the target segment (in Word)?

No problem to do that. Works like a bomb. Just put your cursor where you want to begin and start dictating.

Especially where you are dealing with the introductions to contracts, i.e. where there are a lot of names, addresses, etc, it's best to copy the source text into the target segment and highlight what has to change and simply dictate over that.

Let me know if I've misunderstood you - I'm not exactly firing on all cylinders today

Debs



[Edited at 2007-10-23 14:11]


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Ken Fagan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
clarification Oct 23, 2007

Hi Debs,

First of all, I have to say that I know nothing about Trados or other TM programs, so pls excuse my ignorant question!

Every month, the same client sends me a 20,000-word Word doc, some 80% of which is taken, word-for-word (or practically) and in bits and pieces from 2 (already translated) reference docs.

It takes me 4 days to do the job; 3 of those 4 days are spent manually comparing the 2 ref docs to the doc to be translated, and then copying & pasting. It's very time-consuming and, of course, it's easy to miss minor details.

Again, I don't know how TM programs actually work, so pls be indulgent:).

Would it be possible to use Trados to ID the perfect/nearly perfect matches, have Trados translate (for lack of a better term) those matches, after which I would take the then 80% translated doc and simply use DNS to dictate my translation of the remaining 20% (and then edit that 20%)?

Thanks, Debs!


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:34
Dutch to English
+ ...
No probs ... Oct 23, 2007

What happens in Trados is you click on a specific segment (sentence or part of a sentence) in the source text and it opens to provide you with the source segment and space to type or dictate the target text.

There is another feature in Trados that allows you to align old target and source texts and create a translation memory (TM). That's a bit tricky but you'll need to do it with the two reference docs to get the benefit. The manual that comes with Trados explains how to use the alignment feature though.

Once you've aligned the two texts and have a TM, all that will happen is that when you don't have a 100% match, you'll highlight what changes and dictate over it.

So, you'll be doing it as you go along in other words, not going back and looking for where the text differs - that is precisely what is so good about Trados (CAT tools in general), you can't easily make those mistakes because it's colour-coded for you, it shows you exactly what to change.

You'll have a bit of a learning curve with Trados but on your rates, the job will pay for Trados first time round.

You'll have to have done the groundwork by the time the job comes in (aligning those reference documents and creating the TM), but you should then be able to finish the same job easily in less than a day.

So, in short, for those types of jobs, Trados and Dragon are a great combination. I can't talk for the other Cat tools, as my only real experience is with Trados. I've used some of the others but don't know whether they have alignment features. No doubt others will share their experience.

All sounds a bit daunting but if I can use the programs, anyone can


Hope this helps
Debs

[Edited at 2007-10-23 14:39]


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 05:34
Partial member
Spanish
+ ...
Yes and yes Oct 23, 2007

Ken Fagan wrote:

Would it be possible to use Trados to ID the perfect/nearly perfect matches, have Trados translate (for lack of a better term) those matches, after which I would take the then 80% translated doc and simply use DNS to dictate my translation of the remaining 20% (and then edit that 20%)?


Actually that's what CAT tools are for, consistency. They use your previous translations (stored in Translation Memories - TM) to help you translate new documents. if the CAT tool detects a an exact match (100%), the translation is automatically inserted; if the segment is just partially similar (Fuzzy Match), the previous translation is displayed so you can visualize the differences and apply the appropriate changes. Additionally, most CAT tools have a Glossary manager --the name changes from CAT to CAT, so you can add those terms you use the most.

If you are just starting with CAT tools, I recommend you to try a cheaper and simpler CAT tool like Wordfast or Metatexis (I like Metatexis better, the help file has a very nice intro to CAT Tools).

Since you've already translated several related documents, you could use the Alignment Tool, most CAT Tools include one. That way, you can use both an original and its translation, in order to create a new TM with you old translations. It's not a quick task, but that way you don't have to re-translate what you've already translated.

About Dragon and Trados: Unless you're using Vista, Dragon should work fine with any CAT Tool

Good luck,

Claudia


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Ken Fagan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
how long would it take you? Oct 23, 2007

Thanks, Claudia!

1. Could you pls tell me roughly how many hours it'd take YOU to do what I just said: i.e. to retrieve the 80% exact matches from the 2 reference docs to come up with 15 K of the 20 K words to be translated?

2. I hate computers: would it take much less time to learn Wordfast than it would to learn Trados? Would Wordfast be complete enough for my purposes (including a glossary option)?

Many thanks!


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 05:34
Partial member
Spanish
+ ...
... Oct 23, 2007

1. Could you pls tell me roughly how many hours it'd take YOU to do what I just said: i.e. to retrieve the 80% exact matches from the 2 reference docs to come up with 15 K of the 20 K words to be translated?
Several hours, 2 to 4 I reckon, it's very hard to tell. It highly depends on how familiar you are with the texts or how well the segments are aligned. For instance, sometimes 2 segments become one on the translation. It's not as hard as it seems, it takes practice but once you get the gist of it, the whole process becomes smoother

Most alignment windows looks the same: http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tsalignxf4.gif

2. I hate computers: would it take much less time to learn Wordfast than it would to learn Trados? Would Wordfast be complete enough for my purposes (including a glossary option)?
I don't like Wordfast, I never did. It took me several weeks to learn how to barely use it. I even found Trados easier to use--but I'm probably the exception to the rule, this was years ago, so it might be easier to use now. I found Metatexis so much simpler to use, and with a neater interface.

Most CAT tools aren't free but you can use them for free with some limitations. My advice is that you download and use both --or more, and see which one adapts better to your needs.


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Gillian Searl  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:34
Member (2004)
German to English
hours? Oct 24, 2007

If you don't align the documents, which would maybe take you 2-4 hours (aligning isnt that hard) there is another option for the first time round. You simply do what you have been doing all along and copy and paste but using Trados. I.e. open segment, copy, paste, close segment, open next segment. so you are creating the TM as you go along. The next time you do the the document it is all in the TM. So you open the document, open first segment, press translate to next unknown segment and your 20 k doc just became 5 k making it much quicker for you. If you hate computers i think trying to combine Trados and Dragon would be challenging because you are learning two things at the same time so I'd suggest learning Trados before combining it. Hope that helps.
Gillian


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Ken Fagan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
thanks Oct 24, 2007

thanks for your suggestion, Gillian.

I've been using DNS for the past 10 years, so that part is done:)


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David Turner  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
+ ...
MemoQ? Oct 24, 2007

I would recommend you try an easy tool like MemoQ rather than a complicated, problem-ridden tool like Trados.
http://www.kilgray.com/kilgray/
It has a superb aligner so you'll be able to align the reference documents (make sure you ask for for the source documents as well) in a matter of minutes and then pretranslate.
You can download the program for free for a 3-month trial period. Download and installation only takes a couple of minutes.
Support is excellent should you run into any problems.
You'll probably be able to complete jobs like the one you describe in a couple of days instead of 4.
BR,
David Turner


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Ken Fagan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
thanks Oct 24, 2007

thanks very much for the suggestion, David.

I went to their site: "2 hours to learn 90% of the program's functions" sounds great:)

I wasn't able to find any independent reviews: is it a fairly new program/com?

Thks


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David Turner  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
+ ...
Independent review Oct 24, 2007

Ken Fagan wrote:

I wasn't able to find any independent reviews: is it a fairly new program/com?

Thks


Yes, it came out in 2005.
There's an independent review right here in Proz actually.
http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/1198/1/A-Memory-that-Never-Forgets

You'll find it much easier to use than other older programs as everything is integrated in the same straightforward interface. There are no complicated add-ons or optional black boxes. Let me know if you need any help.
BR,
David


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Ken Fagan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
is MemoQ missing anything worthwhile? Oct 24, 2007

Very positive review, from someone familiar with most CATs.

Does that mean that someone like myself, a techno-phobe who only works in Word, would miss out on very little (features) by choosing MemoQ over, say, Trados, Wordfast & the others?

Thks


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David Turner  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:34
French to English
+ ...
Try both Oct 24, 2007

Ken Fagan wrote:
Does that mean that someone like myself, a techno-phobe who only works in Word, would miss out on very little (features) by choosing MemoQ over, say, Trados, Wordfast & the others?


Personally speaking, I would say not, but it's true that some translators feel they can only work in Word (until their best customer asks them to do a set of Powerpoint or Excel files!).
In that case, you're left with a choice between Wordfast, Metatexis and Trados. Aligning files will certainly be easier with MemoQ than with Wordfast and this seems to be 80% of the problem you initially mentioned. I'd try Wordfast and MemoQ and see how you go. If you're a techno-phobe, you'll want to avoid heavy-duty tools. The download size is usually a good measure of the problems in store (Across 3.5 450MB, SDL Trados 2007 276MB, MemoQ 32MB, Wordfast 2MB)
BR,
David


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Andres & Leticia Enjuto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
There is one more (temporary) option Oct 24, 2007

Ken, there is a tool in MS Word that could help you while you explore and learn the use of CAT tools (which is what I recommend the most).

You can use the "Combine and Compare Documents" function in the Tools menu in Word. With this, you can compare the last document your customer sent you to a previous one, and create a third document that shows you (in red or blue) exactly what has been deleted and what has been added, and even format changes.
This could 'facilitate' things to you.

Try combining similar documents that you already know, do it several times until you get used to it, and it will be very useful for any reviews your clients send you.


I hope this helps. And good luck with your CAT experience!

Andrés


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