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Trados: simple question regarding numbered lists
Thread poster: Gismar zum Felde
Gismar zum Felde
Local time: 20:46
English to German
+ ...
Jan 22, 2008

hi!

this is pretty simple actually but it's been bugging me for a while and I didn't find a solution:

when I have a document that has a numbered list say one line is

3.4.2.13 Warehouse processes

Trados always wants me to translate the number (3.4.2.13) which is quite boring when there are lots of items.

I don't really understand why it does this, it should become a placeable at the least..

Well probably the solution is really simple and i'm gonna feel really stupid, but i had to write this anyways because it's driving me mad..

thanks!!



[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2008-01-22 23:12]


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Suzanne Blangsted  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:46
Danish to English
+ ...
placeables Jan 22, 2008

The Word document usually has a Trados task bar.
In that task bar, you will see 3 arrows for placeables.
One for previous placeable, one for current placeables, and one for next placeabls.

I sometimes use the "copy source" arrow, if the rest of the text is only one or two words that need translation and then translate those.

Suz


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Gismar zum Felde
Local time: 20:46
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
but there are no placeables! Jan 23, 2008

thanks for your reply!

the thing is, i don't even get any placeables.

can I define them somehow??

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/356/tradosnumlistwh1.jpg

here is a screenshot to prove that there really are no placeables!!

thanks so much!!!!!


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:46
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
These are not treated as numbers, so no placeables, I'm afraid Jan 23, 2008

What you can do is format them as hidden text.
Use search & replace in Word.
Before you do so, be sure you have Trados styles in your document. You will need tw4winexternal. If they are not there, press F8, put "sa" in the name line for the macro, select the macro "sAddTagStyles" and execute it. Then you will have TW styles there.
Search for paragraph mark, followed by random characters and a space.
This could look as follows:
In the field search for put "^13* " (without quotation marks and spaces, here described in words: ^thirteen asterisk space)
In the field replace with: "^&", but select "tw4winexternal" as format.
Be sure to check "Search with wildcards"
This way you should be able to format numbers in front of your segments with tw4winexternal, what should cause them be left outside a translation unit.

Hope this works for you
Best regards
Jerzy

[Edited at 2008-01-23 00:46]


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Gismar zum Felde
Local time: 20:46
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
also changes beginnings of paragraphs that don't begin with a number Jan 23, 2008

Jerzy

this has the right effect but the search includes every beginning of a paragraph, not only those that start with a number.



Do you know how to search for something like '[digit].[digit]*'

I got as far as replacing only the digits but that isn't very useful to me


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Anna Sylvia Villegas Carvallo
Mexico
Local time: 17:46
English to Spanish
A simpler solution. Jan 23, 2008

When viewing your image, I can see your source text is not copied into the yellow bar.

You need to enable the "Copy source on no match" box (see below), and the source text will be automatically copied down. Then you just translate the text, and leave the number intact.



[Edited at 2008-01-23 01:47]


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Gismar zum Felde
Local time: 20:46
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
yes but.. Jan 23, 2008

yes but then i will have to delete the source in almost every segment i translate and in total loose more than i gain

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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 01:46
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Really? Jan 23, 2008

Those Wordfast handles without problem, but usually Trados is even better in this respect, it recognises also German style listings with brackets behind the number. If the document is properly formatted Trados should recognise these numbers and start the segment after them.

Regards
Heinrich


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:46
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Indeed, it will recognize anything between paragraph mark and space Jan 23, 2008

How long is your text?
When you would replace manually instead of replace all?

Do the numbers have always the same structure?

Another idea: after a space, which follows the number, there is always a capital letter, isn't it? If so, make the search string longer, add the following after the space: [A-Z] and select "match case".
Maybe that will bring you what you need?

@Heinrich - the number has no dot or other sign after it, so neither Wordfast nor Trados can handle them as a number string outside the segment.


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Boris Kimel  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 02:46
English to Russian
+ ...
Replace using wildcards Jan 23, 2008

Oops, this was addressed already - sorry. Could be deleted as well.

Gismar zum Felde wrote:
Do you know how to search for something like '[digit].[digit]*'

There is an option in Word's replace dialog. This is a limited and somewhat ill-defined set of regular expressions. Reading Word's online help and some trial-and-error approach should be enough. Looks like e.g. replacing ([0-9]).([0-9]) with \1,\2 to change decimal points to decimal commas in numbers.

[Редактировалось 2008-01-23 08:15]


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Peter Linton  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:46
Member (2002)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Try tabs Jan 23, 2008

One solution I sometimes use is to insert a tab character between the numbers and the heading

3.4.2.13 (tab) Warehouse processes

Then Trados will ignore the number and show only Warehouse processes

You can use Search and Replace to find each number and replace ths space with a tab.


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René Stranz-Nikitin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 00:46
Czech to German
+ ...
I also prefer the tabs. Jan 24, 2008

I agree with Peter.

Peter Linton wrote:

One solution I sometimes use is to insert a tab character between the numbers and the heading

3.4.2.13 (tab) Warehouse processes

Then Trados will ignore the number and show only Warehouse processes

You can use Search and Replace to find each number and replace ths space with a tab.



Many source texts are not formatted as Mr. Gates intended it, so I have to "correct" the formatting of them at least to a certain degree to be able to work with CATs. I think the way Peter described it is appropriate in many cases. I do not think that it would be reasonable to transform everything to automated numbering. There is a high probability, that the end costumer would not appreciate that.

Contracts from Russia, for instance, almost never contain automated numbering and the lawyers over there have their good reasons not to use automated numbering.

This thread is another good example for the fact, that CATs not always make things easier.

Some years ago my motto was: No CAT, no cry!


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 02:46
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Nonbreaking spaces? Jan 24, 2008

I assume that there are nonbreaking spaces in your document. That may cause problems regarding segmentation and placeables. Check your document and replace nonbreaking spaces with ordinary ones.

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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 02:46
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
off-topic Jan 25, 2008

By the way, one of the reasons why I prefer another CAT tool (Deja Vu) is that numbers issue.

In my native language, Turkish, 1. means 1st, 2. means 2nd, ... (Similar to Norwegian I assume)
That is, a number followed by a dot is many times not only a number but sometimes a word. If I am not mistaken, Wordfast or PlusTools can segment numbers as well.

http://www.wordfast.net/index.php?whichpage=knowledge&Task=view&questId=21&catId=17
"Wordfast does not consider isolated numbers as translatable items, and does not segment them. You can select such isolated numbers and force Wordfast to segment them. Finally, remember that Pandora?s box has a switch ("segmentAll") that will force Wordfast to segment isolated numbers."


See also http://ideas.sdltrados.com/ideas/detail.asp?i=404





[Edited at 2008-01-25 11:15]


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fued
Local time: 00:46
German to Spanish
how i did it Jan 26, 2008

in the end I did it like Peter said, but I realized that there were always many white spaces after the number so I just replaced all 5 consecutive spaces with a tab character

thanks!!


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