To go to CAT or not to go CAT? That is the question.
Stefano Nicola D'Amato United States Local time: 02:41 Member (2011) Spanish to English + ...
Jun 27, 2011
Hello everyone!
After typing and reviewing an extensive post, I hit the PREVIEW button below and lost everything I just spent the last twenty minutes working on! Frustration!!!
I know that this topic has been addressed many times but I am writing a new post because I could not seem to find the answers to all of my questions specific to my situation. By browsing through the forums I found answers but some of them dealt with previous versions of software or were specific to languages that I do not work with.
Two weeks ago I took the ATA Certification Exam (Spanish to English) and am awaiting the results. I understand that it can take up to 16 weeks, so before I start my massive e-mailing of resumes I think it would be wise to wait and see if I passed the exam to put the certification on my resume.
Since I have "down time" right now, I am using it to research various aspects about getting started as a freelance translator seriously. One of the BIG questions that arose is whether or not to invest in CAT software. I do consider myself to be somewhat computer savvy--I don't know about the validity of this statement after I just lost the post I worked 30 minutes on!--I understand that the time to invest in training plays a big part in whether or not to start using CAT software. Since I have the time now, I thought it would the opportune moment to purchase software and learn how to use it.
I also understand that one of the big drawbacks about purchasing the software is the initial cost. I guess you have to invest money in order to make money so I am willing to purchase software. But which software?
During the last several days I researched two options: Trados Studio 2009 and Wordfast (Classic and Pro). Here are some observations that I made about the two products:
1. Trados Studio 2009 - Obviously, this is the software that I have heard most about. Primarily due to their huge marketing campaigns and also through job posts that require you to have Trados to accept a job. It took me two days to download the 345MB trial version of Studio. This seems a bit ridiculous considering it is the "number one" software out there. Also, the streaming product demos and tutorials that are available from the website didn't seem to load. They would also stop at about 80% and eventually time out. So my first impression of Trados was not exactly a good one. When I finally was able to download and install the trial, I had access to some tutorials and overviews from within the software's HELP section. Those, at least, worked and I was able to get a better understanding of what Trados is and what it does. I came to the conclusion that Trados was created to work in an environment where there are several people working on a project (project manager, translators, revisers, quality control, etc.). But what about for the freelance translator who is going at it solo? I guess the main benefit of the software for someone in my situation would be the translation memories. Additionally, if I become proficient in the software and purchase it, I may be able to get more work by those agencies or clients who require Trados. Studio 2009 is, to say the least, overwhelming. I am prepared to take an online training course and I feel that I will be able to get the hang of it.
I should also mention that I own an iMac but have Windows 7 installed via Parallels. I did not seem to have any issues running Trados on a virtual machine. Luckily I also have MS Word 2007 because I know that Trados would not be compatible with Word 2011 for Mac.
2. Wordfast - Until I began my research I honestly never even heard of this product. It seems to be quite popular among translators and from what I read, it has to do with the ease of the software and also the price. I own an iMac so I was happy to see that this software would work well with MAC OS 10.6 and Office 2011 for Mac. I downloaded the file quickly and painlessly but had problems installing it. I followed the instructions and the specific note about installing with Office 2011. Although the add-on installed correctly, there was no icon for Wordfast. I searched the forums and found out that the solution is to attach the Wordfast template when opening Word. From the instructions, I thought this was a one-time operation but in my case, every time I opened Word, I had to manually attach the template. I could be doing something wrong but this is what happened in my case. As the software is not a stand-alone version, everything is done from inside Word. When I finally got the toolbar to open, I had two word documents opened simultaneously. One was the Wordfast tutorial and the other was the sample document included with the download to complete the tutorial. When I got the dialog box to create a translation memory to open, I was unable to go to the tutorial document to scroll down to see the next step. This was a bit frustrating. I guess it just takes getting used to. I found the operation of Wordfast Classic to be a bit odd and completely foreign. I guess one of the advantages of a stand-alone software like Trados or Wordfast Pro is that you have an interface that is more user-friendly. I did download and install Wordfast Pro but at this point I felt so overwhelmed that I decided to stop and post something in the forums to get some ideas.
I will now list the specific questions that I seek answers to:
1. If cost were not an issue, which CAT software would you purchase? Studio 2009 or Wordfast (either Classic or Pro)?
2. As far as the possibility to get more work, which software will benefit me more? As I have previously stated, I have seen numerous job offers that require Trados, but have never seen anything that requires Wordfast.
3. Since I have "down time" now, I would like to invest in CAT software and training.
3a. I would also like to take all of my previously translated texts and create translation memories. Is this a good idea? If I have the time is it a task worth undertaking?
3b. I was under the impression that when you create a translation memory, you create one large one per language pair. From what I have seen, this is not how thing are done. It seems that a new translation memory is created per translation project. Is this correct?
3c. As far as creating translation memories, I am a bit confused. The majority of the source documents I have are in PDF format, while the target documents I have translated are in DOC format. From what I read, Studio converts the PDF to a DOC but I can't, for the life of me, figure out how this is done. I don't know if this is a limitation of the trial version or not.
3d. Also from my research, I found that to create bi-lingual texts to be saved to translation memories you need software that will align the two texts. WinAlign is what I have encountered the most but it seems that it is not included with the trial version of Studio 2009. It is actually part of Trados 2007, which confuses me because Trados 2007 is apparently included with a purchased copy of Studio 2009. Is there other software out there that I could be using to create bi-lingual texts of my previously translated work?
I guess those are the main questions that I had. I would appreciate any replies as I registered for the Studio 2009 (with 13 months of ProZ) group-by and payment must be made by June 30th.
Thanks again!
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Samuel Murray Netherlands Local time: 08:41 Member (2006) English to Afrikaans + ...
Some notes
Jun 27, 2011
stefanond wrote:
Additionally, if I become proficient in the software and purchase it, I may be able to get more work by those agencies or clients who require Trados. Studio 2009 is, to say the least, overwhelming. I am prepared to take an online training course and I feel that I will be able to get the hang of it.
1. Since you're willing to try out software, why not try out Atril's Dejavu as well? It is aimed specifically at freelancers. I myself don't use it (I find it too complicated), but in your situation I would recommend that you try it out.
2. Trados consists of two products, namely version 2009 and version 2007 (which you get free when you buy 2009). These two products are quite different from each other, so essentially you'd need to learn two tools. Most agencies require you to use version 2007.
Wordfast - Until I began my research I honestly never even heard of this product. It seems to be quite popular among translators and from what I read, it has to do with the ease of the software and also the price.
Ease is not the right word. Simplicity is more like it. As for the price, the price used to be very good but the company recently decided to bring up their prices to be in line with that of other CAT tools. Previously, WFC and WFP was bundled as one package, but these days you need to buy them seperate, both at full price.
I found the operation of Wordfast Classic to be a bit odd and completely foreign.
Installing WFC is the hardest part of learning to use it.
I did download and install Wordfast Pro but at this point I felt so overwhelmed that I decided to stop and post something in the forums to get some ideas.
WFP is a completely different product, although its TM format is compatible with WFC's TM format. I suggest that you try out WFP to see how it works. Don't judge WFP by your experience of WFC.
1. If cost were not an issue, which CAT software would you purchase? Studio 2009 or Wordfast (either Classic or Pro)?
I would buy Trados, so that I can convert files with it, and I would buy a different CAT tool, which would be my primary tool, with which I would do most of my work. In my case, it would be WFC, but it could be any other tool.
I have seen numerous job offers that require Trados, but have never seen anything that requires Wordfast.
The largest translation agency in the world has their own CAT tool that they often require you to use. The second-largest translation agency in the world prefers Trados 2009. The third-largest translation agency in the world prefers Wordfast Pro.
If your aim is to buy a CAT tool to get work (and not to buy a CAT tool to help you with your work), then Trados is your best investment.
3a. I would also like to take all of my previously translated texts and create translation memories. Is this a good idea? If I have the time is it a task worth undertaking?
The old answer is: no, unless you're dealing with repeatitive texts.
The modern answer is: if you can find a suitable large-scale aligner, then it may be worth your while. Since you have time on your hands, and hair on your teeth, try this one:
3b. I was under the impression that when you create a translation memory, you create one large one per language pair. From what I have seen, this is not how thing are done. It seems that a new translation memory is created per translation project. Is this correct?
It is entirely up to you... there are pros and cons both ways.
The majority of the source documents I have are in PDF format, while the target documents I have translated are in DOC format. From what I read, Studio converts the PDF to a DOC...
Don't be surprised if you're not all too happy with the conversion. Rather use a separate program that converts the PDF to MS Word, and then translate the Word file in your CAT tool. That way, you have more control over the file.
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Stefano Nicola D'Amato United States Local time: 02:41 Member (2011) Spanish to English + ...
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Thanks!
Jun 28, 2011
Samuel, I really appreciate the time you took to both read and reply to my lengthy post.
Your comments are very useful.
I am just feeling so overwhelmed at the moment that I have to step back and try to process some of this info.
Thanks again.
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Nicole Schnell United States Local time: 23:41 Member English to German + ...
Learning how to use a CAT is crucial, but you don't necessarily have to buy them.
Jun 28, 2011
Firstly, I would like to say that Samuel's advice is excellent.
However - in all those years I have not spent a single cent on any CAT tool.
For various reasons:
- CAT tools are often needed simply because the translator needs a tool to be able to work on a variety of formats. I own a multitude of licenses for highly sophisticated software on my machines, and I know how to work them. Which, in most cases makes CAT tools become unnecessary in the first place.
- Clients who insist on CAT tools because of their policies in regard to TMs and such, may just as well send you a copy of their preferred software. They often own a ton of licenses. Just ask for it.
- This way I know how to use this stuff properly, and that's all that is required.
In short: Purchasing an expensive CAT tool to be able to work on InDesign, QuarkXPress, Illustrator, Freehand, Publisher and what not would be nuts in my case. I am all set already. I also prefer my own PDF Converter and I also own a multi-platform XML Editor. I have spent enough. And here comes the interesting part: I never, ever had to decline a job or was denied a job because I don't "own" a CAT tool. CAT tools are handy, but they don't make a translator.
Edited. Stupid typo.
[Edited at 2011-06-28 02:37 GMT]
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Stefano Nicola D'Amato United States Local time: 02:41 Member (2011) Spanish to English + ...
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Vielen Dank, Nicole
Jun 28, 2011
You gave me yet another perspective. I sure am glad that I posted on this forum.
I do have one question for you (well, maybe two):
Which tool do you prefer for converting PDF to DOC formats?
What software can you recommend for aligning documents?
Thanks again!
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT Spain Local time: 08:41 Member (2005) English to Spanish + ...
Just one comment
Jun 28, 2011
stefanond wrote:
Two weeks ago I took the ATA Certification Exam (Spanish to English) and am awaiting the results. I understand that it can take up to 16 weeks, so before I start my massive e-mailing of resumes I think it would be wise to wait and see if I passed the exam to put the certification on my resume.
You mean before spamming? Honestly, sending two thousand emails with your resume does not make sense these days. You just make people lose time. Most agencies simply delete unsolicited email and search for their translators actively in translator portals or association directories.
If you mean that you will carefully pick and target specific agencies which could be interested in you for one reason or the other (geography, specialisation, personal interests...), I have no objection. But to me this "massive e-mailing" you plan is plain and simple spamming.
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Jabberwock Poland Local time: 08:41 Member (2004) English to Polish
Tool for the task
Jun 28, 2011
Nicole Schnell wrote:
However - in all those years I have not spent a single cent on any CAT tool.
- CAT tools are often needed simply because the translator needs a tool to be able to work on a variety of formats. I own a multitude of licenses for highly sophisticated software on my machines, and I know how to work them.
InDesign: USD 699, Illustrator: USD 599, FrameMaker: USD 999... And you call CAT tools "expensive"... Economically, "multitude of licenses" does not make sense, if you can just buy one tool. Unless you are planning to provide DTP services, but even then it might be hard to recover the costs.
Which, in most cases makes CAT tools become unnecessary in the first place.
CAT tools might not be necessary. But they are very useful, well beyond "handy".
I know programs such as InDesign quite thoroughly - I have worked for several years as a DTP editor. And yet I would never choose it as a translation environment - simply because they were not created with that in mind. They are slow, the find and replace tools are rather limited, you have to be very careful while overwriting text, etc.
On the other hand, CAT tools give me:
- unified environment for all my translations - no need to learn several programs
- concordance - an essential tool for maintaining consistency: I can recall any expression e.g for a given client, no matter when it was translated (good luck on finding one useful expression which you are certain is in one of six InDesign files done two years ago!)
- filtering on text - I can look at once at all occurrences of a given term in the source document, both in the previous segments and in the future ones, so I know both the context and the importance of the phrase
- term management - if I take some time, I can build up superglossaries for various domains; it is also useful for following client's approved terms
- placeables - numbers, dates, symbols, punctuation etc. may be automatically converted between different systems
- quality assurance - I can check for recommended/forbidden terms, number matching between source and target, maintaining specified (absolute or relative) string length, consistency of translation in both directions, empty/untranslated segments, punctuation and capitalization consistency, formatting consistency... the list goes on and on
- leverage - last but not least... I don't need to translate repetitive stuff over and over again. I know the perspective on this is hopelessly muddled by endless discussion on weighted rates ("Trados discounts" as most call them), but the fact is that I benefit from this feature economically every day.
Of course, you can translate without all this and be a decent translator - I did that myself, when I started, there were no such tools at all. In fact, if I put enough effort in it (and maybe some money), I can probably translate any format in Notepad with great effect. But it does not mean I should...
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To add to what Samuel has said about Wordfast adjusting their price upwards, indeed Wordfast PRO+Classic now costs EUR 500, which is approximately what you pay for Trados. If you only want PRO or Classic, it's EUR 350.
However, if you live in a "developing economy" (a country outsidethis list), you get a 50% discount. If I was to buy PRO right now, I'd pay more or less what I paid 2 years ago. The difference is that Classic would not be included in the price. This obviously won't apply to the initial poster but may very well apply to others.
[Edited at 2011-06-28 07:32 GMT]
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B D Finch France Local time: 08:41 Member (2006) French to English + ...
Wordfast and price
Jun 28, 2011
I use Wordfast Pro and Classic, which I was fortunate to buy while they were still bundled together. I'd previously used Classic for 3-4 years. It is unfortunate that Wordfast increased their prices to Trados levels, as price was a major advantage they had. Their other major advantage is that I have heard lots of people complaining that Trados messes up their computer and makes it crash. I have never heard (or experienced) a similar complaint about Wordfast.
Check out the prices of support. I think you will find that it is free with Wordfast, but not with Trados.
Wordfast is largely compatible with Trados. I have just completed a job where the client supplied me with pre-segmented ttx (Trados) files and I worked on them in Wf Pro and returned ttx files. Though I couldn't open the translated (uncleaned) ttx files, I could preview the translated document in Word from within Wf Pro. Wherever possible, I use Wf Classic as I find it more flexible and prefer not having the segments stripped out of the Word document so long as there is no complicated formatting or tables.
I use Olifant (freeware) to manage TMs.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
BDF
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Peter Linton United Kingdom Local time: 07:41 Member (2002) Swedish to English + ...
Don't blame Trados for slow download
Jun 28, 2011
stefanond wrote:
...I do consider myself to be somewhat computer savvy . . .some observations that I made about [Trados]:
It took me two days to download the 345MB trial version of Studio. This seems a bit ridiculous ... Also, the streaming product demos and tutorials that are available from the website didn't seem to load. They would also stop at about 80% and eventually time out. So my first impression of Trados was not exactly a good one.
You are being a bit unfair to Trados. It is not Trados that determines the speed or quality of your download – it is the speed and quality of your broadband supplier. An analogy -- if you send me a letter that arrives damaged or late, I blame the postman, not you. Of course it is possible that you damaged the letter before sending it, but the main finger of suspicion falls on the Postal Service.
So don't let that experience colour your view of Trados, or any other CAT tool. And let me add another compelling reason for getting some CAT tool. They avoid over-typing the source text, and this to me is such an advantage that I use my CAT tool ( as it happens, Trados), for everything. Even literary translation, which is often mentioned as being totally unsuited to CAT tools. Another attraction – CAT tools are generally compatible with speech recognition, and SR + CAT provide a powerful combination that can boost both the quality and quantity of your work.
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Jeff Whittaker United States Local time: 02:41 Member (2002) Spanish to English + ...
Another thing to consider
Jun 28, 2011
is that the vast majority of agencies in the United States (at least the ones I have worked with) do not use CAT tools for into English translation. I purchased Wordfast a year ago and have yet to use it for a real project because almost all of my work does not come in a machine-readable format. So the use of the tool would be for your own benefit.
If I were you, I would stick with a tool that offers a free trial (you can use Wordfast, for example, for free for a limited number of TM units), learn how to use it and then perhaps purchase the full version if and when you get a project that requires or necessitates it use.
Personally, I think that within the next decade Trados will purchase WF and perhaps a few other tools and merge them together and then eventually they will be purchased by Microsoft that will then incorporate the tool into a new version of Word or Windows for translators.
P.S. When I know I will be typing a long post, I type it in Word first and then copy and paste into a forum to avoid the problem you mentioned.
[Edited at 2011-06-28 13:07 GMT]
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Stefano Nicola D'Amato United States Local time: 02:41 Member (2011) Spanish to English + ...
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Thank you
Jun 28, 2011
Thank you for the valuable information.
I think I'll bite the bullet and purchase Studio 2009 through the ProZ group-buy program with a 13-month membership.
I guess the main problem is that there are too many options out there. For someone who is new to CAT software, this can be quite overwhelming. I guess it just comes down to individual preferences and needs, but the replies I received definitely helped to point me in some direction. Whether or not it is the right direction, only time will tell!
I am really amazed at how people take the time to read posts (especially long-winded ones like mine) and then take the time to offer advice and suggestions. My faith in the human race is being restored! Thanks again!
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Stefano Nicola D'Amato United States Local time: 02:41 Member (2011) Spanish to English + ...
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Good point!
Jun 28, 2011
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
is that the vast majority of agencies in the United States (at least the ones I have worked with) do not use CAT tools for into English translation. I purchased Wordfast a year ago and have yet to use it for a real project because almost all of my work does not come in a machine-readable format. So the use of the tool would be for your own benefit.
If I were you, I would stick with a tool that offers a free trial (you can use Wordfast, for example, for free for a limited number of TM units), learn how to use it and then perhaps purchase the full version if and when you get a project that requires or necessitates it use.
Personally, I think that within the next decade Trados will purchase WF and perhaps a few other tools and merge them together and then eventually they will be purchased by Microsoft that will then incorporate the tool into a new version of Word or Windows for translators.
P.S. When I know I will be typing a long post, I type it in Word first and then copy and paste into a forum to avoid the problem you mentioned.
[Edited at 2011-06-28 13:07 GMT]
Jeff, I guess I learned this lesson the hard way. Although I haven't posted things in a while, I usually write posts in Word first and then copy and paste. I guess I didn't learn my lesson! But you can be sure that when I rewrote my post, I did it in Word first!
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