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Is re-editing a new form of lower translation rates?
Thread poster: xxxTransOl
xxxTransOl  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
+ ...
Jan 21, 2002

... so this US company decided it would be a \"great\" idea to forward

the user manuals to the Mexican distributor, where the tech guys

could translate the EN manuals to ES on the fly. The main idea was to

save costs and time. Eventually the same US company has learned that

the Spanish speaking users do not understand the manuals. The

documents have the ES wording but the syntax and grammar structures

of EN, some Spanglish included. The look&feel of correct Spanish is

totally missing. NOW the US company has decided to hire a

professional translator team, but demands just RE-EDITING first,

asking-of course- for a lower edition-not translation- rate. This is

a big 300,000+ job for a very reliable company BUT: Is this a new form of lower translation rates masked as edition rates?



Just re-wondering. Thanks.





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Egmont
Spain
Local time: 00:14
Afrikaans to Spanish
+ ...
re-editing Jan 21, 2002

This case is \'picaresca\' stuff.

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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 00:14
Spanish to English
+ ...
Just comparing my experience... Jan 21, 2002

I was asked to \'edit\' a text written in English (by now I realise taht in Spain \'editing\' usually means rewriting substantially).



However, this time the case was different. I had to point out to the client that editing it would take me longer than actually translating it! That\'s how it came out taht it had been machine trandslated.



Now it wasn\'t THAT bad - I have in fact seen worse Spanglish. But the two problems were that the technical words (about every 2nd word) weren\'t translated (because the machine hadn\'t had those words in its memory) and the original WAS a bit off occasionally, which meant it was a bit off in the translation.



It took me 21 hours to produce an acceptable text, from a total of 3173 words - I worked at the rate of 151 words an hour. That compares very poorly with my normal rhythm of work, which would be 300 - 400 for an equivalent text from Spanish.



So where DID all the extra work come in? After all, one has been saved the slog of overwriting.



1. Well, I deduce that it\'s the working from the bad trans as well as the Spanish original - you end up manipulating 3 versions (yours (what will be the final version), the Spanish and the machine version).



2. And it must also be that rearranging sentences uses more time than typing straight from the original (which you also rearrange, but your own thought processes and methods are understandable to yourseldf so you know where the text is coming from). When you\'re double-guessing (as I have done -often) - i.e. translating Spanglish back into Spanish so as to figure out what the hell is intended so you can produce English -well, this complicates the translation process. And actually makes MORE work, not less.



So as far as I\'m concerned, cheapskate methods to avoid paying translations just works out more expensive for everybody in the long run, whether in terms of money or quality or even time. Editing, strictly speaking, should only be carried out on texts that have \'native\' standard English.



By now, I refuse to price a job until I\'ve seen it, given what people think passes as English.


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Roddy Tannahill  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:14
French to English
+ ...
Cheapskates Jan 21, 2002

Good point, Carlos! I\'ve experienced similar situations in my work too. I work for an agency full-time, and we routinely get people doing a translation \"in-house\" and then sending it to us to \'edit\', hoping that the cost will be less. Of course, there are some texts that are OK - but the majority of them aren\'t. And when being translated from German to English (which is our major language combination), a lot gets lost somewhere in the ether....



Our solution is basically to point out to the customer (if appropriate) that the in-house job was \'comprehensible, but with very un-English style\', etc., so that the customer doesn\'t lose face by being told his translating skills are naff. We then follow that right up by saying that we can offer them a professional translation, and then cite examples of how bad translations have made the difference between success and failure, etc. Finally, we hit them with the sales pitch, citing reference customers etc.



I\'m sure all my co-translators out there will have similar practices, but it still gets my goat whenever I read some mangled English written by a well-meaning German ) No offence intended to anyone - I\'m not making general statements here



Does anyone else experience this, or do they have another, slightly craftier solution to make sure that we translators don\'t end up working for a pittance?


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Maya Jurt  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 00:14
Member (2002)
French to German
+ ...
Machine Translation + """Editing""" Jan 21, 2002

I saw a job posted today. (not on proZ) This company asked for a lenghty \"editing\" job and included à Systrans translation from French to English. After half a paragraph, I stopped reading.....

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Dyran Altenburg  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:14
English to Spanish
+ ...
If it's for Mexico, Mexican language professionals should do the job Jan 21, 2002

Of course this is up to the client, but IMNSHO, it doesn\'t make sense to send it to Spain (unless done there by Mexican translators/revisors).



They do charge more, though, and rightly so.



My two cents,





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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 18:14
German to English
+ ...
2 cents Jan 21, 2002

Two options:



- don\'t accept editing/proofreading jobs or

- charge a \"prohibitive\" rate for your editing/proofreading services.



But you are right: this \"practice\" is gaining ground. It\'s all we can do to decline such offers.


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Rossana Triaca  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 20:14
English to Spanish
If you value your name, you end up translating the original... Jan 22, 2002

Quote:


NOW the US company has decided to hire a

professional translator team, but demands just RE-EDITING first,

asking-of course- for a lower edition-not translation- rate.




I wouldn\'t take the job because I have had the past opportunity to \"re-edit\" texts that had been translated by an unskilled person. In the end, the translation was so poor and misleading that I ended up translating the original, but with a \"proofreading\" rate.



But the story does not end there; after all that \"free\" work I beated my deadline and submitted the job... what I didn\'t know was that the person that had hired me *was* the unskilled non-native that made the translation in the first place...



He disputed everything about my translation. I was polite but firm to no avail. After long arguments, he changed the original, and he still has the word \"cónyugue\" everywhere in his original because \"what you propose (cónyuge) is not even Spanish\".



All in all, I avoid re-editing whenever possible



Good luck,

Rossana


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DR. RICHARD BAVRY
Spanish to English
+ ...
Prohibitive Rates to Stem the Tide Jan 22, 2002

I could not agree more! I see it as an imperative.



Quote:


On 2002-01-21 23:49, AbacusTrans wrote:

Two options:



- don\'t accept editing/proofreading jobs or

- charge a \"prohibitive\" rate for your editing/proofreading services.



But you are right: this \"practice\" is gaining ground. It\'s all we can do to decline such offers.



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-01-22 02:31 ]

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Nikki Graham  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:14
Partial member (2003)
Spanish to English
Cheapskate methods Jan 22, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-01-21 19:59, Ailish wrote:

So as far as I\'m concerned, cheapskate methods to avoid paying translations just works out more expensive for everybody in the long run, whether in terms of money or quality or even time. Editing, strictly speaking, should only be carried out on texts that have \'native\' standard English.



Totally agree, Ailish. I once had to edit something that had been done in Déjà vu, by a native English speaker, but who wasn\'t a translator. She had translated the names of all the towns / villages in Spain into English. It was the one with \"frog\" in it that really made me laugh. Obviously, it took ages to correct. I had been offered this translation by the agency, but had to refuse becasue I don\'t have déjà vu. In the end I told that them that despite not having the software, I could have translated the whole thing faster than it took me to correct it by using buscar/reemplazar (it was very repetitive).

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