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There used to be a formidable howitzer...
Thread poster: DOUBLE A EN<>ES

DOUBLE A EN<>ES

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Mar 7, 2002

...during WWI, and it\'s name was...



BIG BERTHA!



--------------------------------------------

Oops! Didn\'t mean to open forum with this. Just a quip that should have appeared elsewhere. For those wanting humor!

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-03-07 22:15 ]


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shfranke  Identity Verified
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Big Bertha was a long-range cannon, not a mortar Mar 7, 2002

Greetings.



\"Big Bertha\" was a long-range (circa 75 KM) artillery gun, not a howitzer. Mounted on a special railway carriage.



FYI, during WWII, the Germans used a huge mortar called \"Thor\" at the siege of Leningrad. Another large-caliber mortar wa s called \"Goliath\" (unsure where the Germans used that on the Eastern Front). Both were mounted on railway-dependent carriages and had to be dismantled and moved in sections for travel by rail over long distances.



HTH.



Regards from Los Angeles,


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shfranke  Identity Verified
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Local time: 08:39
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Big Bertha was a long-range cannon, not a mortar Mar 7, 2002

Greetings.



\"Big Bertha\" was a long-range (circa 75 KM) artillery gun, not a howitzer. Mounted on a special railway carriage.



FYI, during WWII, the Germans used a huge mortar called \"Thor\" at the siege of Leningrad. Another large-caliber mortar wa s called \"Goliath\" (unsure where the Germans used that on the Eastern Front). Both were mounted on railway-dependent carriages and had to be dismantled and moved in sections for travel by rail over long distances.



HTH.



Regards from Los Angeles,



Stephen H. Franke


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xxxPaul Roige
Spain
Local time: 17:39
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¡RICK! Mar 8, 2002

¡Achanta la muy que se nos engrilla el cotarro!

¡Hala, castigao de cara a la paré, por malo!





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Mary Smith
Local time: 17:39
Afrihili to Tajik
!No pacifiques, Paul! Mar 8, 2002

¡Leña, que es muy divertido!



LOL,



Susana



(Por cierto ¿no tenemos algo más castizo que LOL?¿qué tal MECJNO?)



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xxxPaul Roige
Spain
Local time: 17:39
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sí, ya, lo siento... Mar 8, 2002

...Explico la primera frase (achanta la muy que se engrilla el cotarro) - de reminiscencias gitano-calés del Barri de Gràcia de Barcelona- uno es así de local: \"calla la boca o nos explota la jaula de grillos\". Más o menos. La próxima vez lo digo en arapahoe. ))

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DOUBLE A EN<>ES

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TOPIC STARTER
Apologies for not being a weapons expert, Mar 10, 2002

but my sources use the term howitzer,interchangeably, as follows:



(I usually check my sources before making statements, even if they\'re jokes.

Thanks for the tip, though I think howitzer is OK.)

-----------------------------------

Political Events, 1914



Montenegro declares war on Austria August 5, Serbia on Germany August 6, Austria on Russia August 6, Montenegro on Germany August 8. Britain and France declare war on Austria August 12, the day on which \"Big Bertha\" arrives at Liège from the Krupp cannon works at Essen. Named for Bertha Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach, 28, the 98-ton, 420-millimeter howitzer can fire a three-foot shell a mile into the air, demolishing any fort. Lièe surrenders August 16.



Source: MS Bookshelf 98/

The People\'s Chronology is licensed from Henry Holt and Company, Inc. Copyright © 1995, 1996 by James Trager. All rights reserved.

---------------------------------------------



In 1900 Alfred Krupp\'s armaments factory at Essen, Germany, began building a 350-mm howitzer that could fire an 800 lb shell over 10,000 yards. In 1908 the German

Army asked Gustav Krupp to build an improved version of this gun with the capability of

destroying the heaviest fortification.



By 1912 Krupp had produced a 420mm weapon that fired a 2,100 lb shell over 16,000

yards. As it weighed 175 tons, it was designed to be transported in five sections by rail and assembled at the firing site. This concerned the German Army and they asked for it to be adapted to be moved by road. By 1914 company had produced a mobile howitzer called Big Bertha (named after Gustav Krupp\'s wife). This 43 ton howitzer could fire a 2,200 lb shell over 9 miles. Transported by Daimler-Benz tractors, it took its 200-man crew, over six hours to re-assemble it on the site.



On the outbreak of the First World War, two Big Berthas and several Skoda 30.5

howitzers were erected outside the fortress of Liege in Belgium. The first shells were

fired on 12th August at the ring of 12 forts around the city. By the 15th August all the

forts had either been destroyed or had surrendered. News of the success of this new

weapon at Liege encouraged other countries involved in the conflict to produce large

mobile guns.



Source:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWbertha.htm

--------------------------------------------

Quote:


On 2002-03-07 22:13, shfranke wrote:

Greetings.



\"Big Bertha\" was a long-range (circa 75 KM) artillery gun, not a howitzer. Mounted on a special railway carriage.



FYI, during WWII, the Germans used a huge mortar called \"Thor\" at the siege of Leningrad. Another large-caliber mortar wa s called \"Goliath\" (unsure where the Germans used that on the Eastern Front). Both were mounted on railway-dependent carriages and had to be dismantled and moved in sections for travel by rail over long distances.



HTH.



Regards from Los Angeles,



Stephen H. Franke





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José Luis Villanueva-Senchuk  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 12:39
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Howitzer... Mar 10, 2002

Rick,



You are 100% right, mate. Normally a cannon..but not always.



Cheers,



JL



Departement of Defense definition:



howitzer

\"Definition: (DOD) 1. A cannon which combines certain characteristics of guns and mortars. The howitzer delivers projectiles with medium velocities, either by low or high trajectories. 2. Normally a cannon with a tube length of 20 to 30 calibers; however, the tube length can exceed 30 calibers and still be considered a howitzer when the high angle fire zoning solution permits range overlap between charges. See also gun; mortar.\"

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/glossary/h/bldef02936.htm?terms=mortar%20definition

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-03-10 18:20 ]


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 12:39
Member
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stephen is right Mar 11, 2002

Big Bertha and the like were nor howitzers but long range guns. A howitzer is a mid-range weapon which is fired with a rather high elevation angle.
[addsig]


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DOUBLE A EN<>ES

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Fine, so the three sources cited are wrong, Mar 11, 2002

and he\'s right, though without sources.

Whatever.


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DOUBLE A EN<>ES

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FYI... Mar 11, 2002

The nickname \"Big Bertha\" was used BOTH for a big gun AND a 42cm howitzer.



A little web research would have revealed this in the first place.



I rest my case.



www.worldwar1.com/pharc005.htm

www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/secondypres/prelude/ ypbombbertha.htm

http://users.pandora.be/bart.van.bulck/german_artillery.htm

www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/3495/FVerdun15a.html

---------------

www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~durkin/phys111/bigbertha.html



Big Berta (WWI Germany)

Probably the most discussed of all of the big guns of the Great War is the infamous Paris Gun. Also known as Lange Max (Long Max), Big Bertha (not to be confused with the 42cm Krupp howitzer given the same nick name) and William’s Gun; this gun was strategic, rather than tactical in nature, in that it was a terror weapon meant to demoralize the citizens of Paris. This forerunner to the Iraqi supergun could fire a shell 70 miles in about 170 seconds reaching a maximum altitude of 24 miles - quite a feat of German engineering for 1918. On the down side, the payload was only 15 pounds of explosive, accuracy was non-existent (you could hit Paris but not a specific target in Paris), and the whole gun would have to be rebored after 65 firings.



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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 12:39
Member
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Thanks Rick Mar 13, 2002

Very good source! It makes clear that the Big Bertha we are talking about was a big gun, and is not to be confused with a howitzer!

Isn\'t this a silly dicussion?


[addsig]


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DOUBLE A EN<>ES

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Absolutely. :-))) Mar 13, 2002

It IS a silly discussion. What I thought would be a touch of humor to lighten up the forum, turned into a tit-for-tat, chicken or the egg academic debate, stirred up by someone whom, albeit I assume well-intentioned, just couldn\'t resist ASSUMING there was a mistake. And we all know what ASSume does, don\'t we?



Wanna really have a laugh? I remembered having used the term in a screenplay I wrote about my grandfather, Gaetano. There\'s a combat scene during WWI where the action describes gun fire and I say BERTHAS are crushing everything in their path. Why? I thought the damn thing was a TANK, like the PANZER in WWII (or is that a cannon?).



This time around, before posting my now stale joke, I took the trouble to check and see what it was and discovered the HOWITZER version, oblivious to the fact that there was also a HUMONGOUS CANNON version. That\'s why I knew the argument was flawed, and for naught, from the beginning. Quite candidly, I probably couldn\'t tell the two apart if I had\'em in front of me firing shells. Of course, I have to back and edit my screenplay.



Anybody remember the Monty Python \"Looking For An Argument\" sketch? That\'s what this reminds me of.



I\'ve looked at Kudoz responses many times, and said to myself, \"&%##!!, that\'s ridiculous, no way!\" But before letting my fingers do the talking, I let them do the walking to the \"mataburros\" and, lo and behold, have had to say, \"gulp! he/she\'s right!! it exists! phew! boy, am I glad I didn\'t shoot my mouth off!\"



Next time I crack a joke, I\'ll remember to avoid making any historical references!



Cheers from Barcelona! I heard there\'s an X versus J debate. Boy, that\'s one I can\'t miss!


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