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DNS 9 and Wordfast
Thread poster: Claire Cox

Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
French to English
+ ...
Mar 12, 2007

Hello,

I've just invested in DNS 9, Standard version in a bid to ease my aching wrists and arms, but so far it's just given me a really bad headache and a sore throat from repeating the same commands over and over again! I loaded it and did the tutorial last week and found it worked fine - dictated a personal letter with no problems whatsoever. Today, however, I tried it with Wordfast for the first time and found the whole process about three times slower than normal. In fact, I got so frustrated, I ended up typing the thing in the end. My problem was that it seemed to work sporadically - sometimes it worked fine, comands and all, but other times it refused to obey the Wordfast commands, Alt down, Alt end, etc. I also found it really hard to make it understand when I spelled out letters - it persisted in spelling "e" when I said "a" - I don't know how else I can say the letter "a" though! I suspect a better headset might make a difference; I have dead straight hair and found the micophone supplied kept slipping, so I suppose a slightly different position could have made the difference.

One last query: is there any way to stop it putting double spaces between sentences? Having done this for years after a basic typing course at university, I was told in no uncertain terms by a French agency some years ago that this is no longer acceptable and I do now prefer the look of just one space between sentences.

Many thanks for any suggestions. I really would like to make this work....

[Edited at 2007-03-12 18:38]


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Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
Member (2004)
Italian to English
Cherry pick Mar 12, 2007

Hi Claire

I've been using the same version as you with Wordfast since the New Year. Apart from being too lazy to learn all the commands, I found they were slower than using the mouse or keyboard. Just using voice for the actual content has speeded me up considerably.

Just because it has these commands doesn't mean you have to use them.

I have a problem with "are" despite retraining but I can live with that as it's predictable.

Disappointed you gave way on double spacing though. All the agencies I work for have accepted that this is part of the translation process into English, though a moderator on this site who has passed me some work (and ought to know better!) does insist on single spacing.

A decent headset does make all the difference.

I should add that one of the major benefits is being able to relax more while translating; you have more options on how to sit, stand or even lie down!

[Edited at 2007-03-12 19:44]


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:32
French to English
What Russell said Mar 12, 2007

I was going to say exactly that - just use Dragon for the text, and ensure your fingers don't waste away and drop off by keeping them gainfully employed on the Ctrl, Alt and arrow keys

I also found the headset a royal pain.
I bought a standalone mike (i.e. no headphones) for about 8 quid from PC World, cheap as chips and a vast improvement.


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Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Not as craven as it sounds... Mar 12, 2007

Hi Russell,

Yes, you may be right - I suppose using the keyboard commands but dictating the rest would still save a considerable amount of typing.

As for the double spacing between sentences, I must admit I was quite affronted at first - indignant even! However, when two agencies, both French, started going on about it, I did look into it and I have to admit that it looks better, especially for justified text. I also found it too complicated, remembering who wanted double spacing and who didn't, so I capitulated.

Regards,

Claire


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Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Why the headphones anyway? Mar 12, 2007

Hi Charlie,

Now there's a thought - a standalone mike would be much better. Why do we need the headphones anyway? I keep being deafened whenever any e-mail comes in and if you happen to open a website playing music - horrendous!

My son has a student job at Curry's so I shall dispatch him to investigate microphones - thanks for the tip!

Claire


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Bruce Popp  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:32
French to English
Headset keeps the mic at a consistent distance from the mouth. Mar 12, 2007

With a headset you can lean back... turn to grab a dictionary, look down at the paper on your desk, and then go back to the screen without stopping.

Get the best headset microphone you can find/afford, keep it positioned properly; the difference will be dramatic.

For the spacing at the end of a sentence: from Tools menu choose Options, then click the Formatting tab and it's a check box at the bottom of the page.


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Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
More problems.... Mar 13, 2007

Aaaagh! More problems - I still haven't managed to get out and change the microphone but it certainly makes life easier to type in the commands. However, having typed a straight text with no problems last night (fom a scanned pdf file, so no Wordfast), I've come to use it with Wordfast today and I'm getting a new problem: as others have described before, every time I move to a new segment, the insertion point jumps to that start of the document and starts typing in the delimiters. I know Charlie mentioned this before and I've tried Firstkeyescape etc to no avail. I'm sure I've seen this point mentioned here recently but I can't find the relevant posts. Has anyone got a solution to this problem because it's driving me mad! I'm making sure the cursor is in the segment, but still it jumps. Sigh... It didn't do this yesterday when I tried it with Wordfast for the first time - obviously realised I would probably have thrown the lot through the window at that point!

[Edited at 2007-03-13 15:47]


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:32
French to English
A coughing-based solution. No, really... Mar 13, 2007

Yeah, I never got to the bottom of that. It still does it on some documents and not others.

When this is happening, and I know this is not exactly ideal, but it gets round it, what I do is cough, once.
This causes the cursor to leap out the Wordfast box and go wherever it wants to go, but Dragon won't type anything there 'cos it don't know what a cough is.
I then click with the mouse back in the Wordfast box (this may involve scrolling down the page, unfortunately), to put the cursor back where it oughta be, and then speak the text as normal.

But I would dearly love to know how to fix it properly....


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Bruce Popp  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:32
French to English
no fix, but some observations Mar 13, 2007

I am familiar with the jumping problem and sometimes it does it and some times it doesn't.

Instead of coughing, I say "begining of line" which is an inoccuous command but will cause the cursor to jump if it's going to. Holding down the control key while you say this forces the utterance to be recognized as a command.

Both WordFast and Dragon use bookmarks in Word to keep their place. I suspect that when WordFast goes to a new segment something happens to Dragon's bookmarks with unintended but bad consequences.

Bruce


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Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Mar 13, 2007

Thanks Charlie and Bruce

I can't believe that coughing might solve the problem, albeit temporarily, but I shall certainly try it when it next happens! In the meantime, I've found the threads on the Wordfast Yahoo group which suggested, amongst other things, pressing Find and replace with any word or letter - which seems to hve done the trick for now. Bizarre. As the lady who asked the question on Yahoo said, it all seems rather primitive.

Onwards and (I hope) upwards.....

Claire


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Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:32
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yet more questions Mar 13, 2007

Back again with more frustrating niggles. I really am at the point of giving up with this particular document. I've imported it from a pdf, so I wonder if that's part of the problem?

For some reason, it never puts an initial capital at the start of each segment. I've set PB to initial cap at start of target, but it makes no difference - I have to do it manually each time. I also normally copy the source text if no match, so I can just edit what needs to be changed, but it won't overwrite the source text so I have to manually delete that. I'm sure it let me overwrite on yesterday's document.

I have upgraded to 5.51b today, but that was in the middle of this job to try and stop the cursor jumping and it was doing all these other things before. However, Wordfast now won't let me Expand segments from the dropdown menu, although it will do it by Alt Page Down. That appears to be a recognised glitch though, as someone else has noted on the Yahoo group.

I'm really not doing very well....


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KathyT  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 15:32
Japanese to English
One space or two? Mar 14, 2007

An unrelated note on spacing...
Double spaces are fine if you're using a typewriter, but the Chigaco Manual of Style
states that "there is no reason for two spaces after a period in published work."

As a kid play-learning how to type, my (typewriter-taught) Mum instilled the double-space-after-a-period thinking in me, and like Claire, I was initially surprised to find it was no longer the accepted norm. However, it took no time at all to re-train myself to type only a single-space after a period, and now, I must say that I infinitely prefer it and would not go back to my old ways.

According to the Rules of Typography:
1. Insert only a single space after all punctuation.
If you grew up prior to the advent of desktop publishing, chances are you were taught to put two spaces after periods, question marks, exclamation marks, and colons. The rationale was that it is easier for the eye to distinguish sentences in this fashion. When using monospaced fonts (read: typewriter fonts), there might be some validity to this. But this only applied to documents created with a typewriter. When preparing text for printing, regardless of the font, use only one space after all punctuation. There are no exceptions to this.
Well, except one. While not necessary, it is acceptable and often more readable when composing e-mail (text that will be read online and not printed) to insert two spaces after periods, question and exclamation marks, and colons.


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Benno Groeneveld  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:32
English to Dutch
+ ...
There is a setting Mar 15, 2007

in DNS 9 where you can change the two spaces after a period to one. I know I've done it, probably in settings or options somehwere.

Haven't used DNS for a couple of days because I have a sore throat (a cold, not talking) and was afraid I'd muck up the files with my suddenly very sexy, deep, Dylanesque voice.

My WF-DNS problem is that the cursor jumps into the codes (not to the beginning) when I try to dictate. I haven't tried the search and replace with nonsense words yet, will do that next time.

The parent company seems to be a bit mixed up. I live in the US and tried to buy the Dutch version online, but have failed so far.


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Joanna Kwiatowska  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:32
Polish to English
+ ...
Hopefully, this is the fix Oct 23, 2007

Bruce Popp wrote:
I am familiar with the jumping problem and sometimes it does it and some times it doesn't.

Both WordFast and Dragon use bookmarks in Word to keep their place. I suspect that when WordFast goes to a new segment something happens to Dragon's bookmarks with unintended but bad consequences.


I use Wordfast and am about to install Dragon Naturally Speaking Preferred 9 and I want to make sure they work together.

I don't know if anyone on this forum has yet solved the "jumping cursor problem," but I found that Yves Champollion has written a macro that is supposed to do just that, to make the two programs compatible:

http://www.wordfast.net/index.php?whichpage=knowledge&Task=view&questId=78&catId=9


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:32
French to English
A less technical fix, less arduous on the throat Nov 20, 2008

I have recently been experimenting.
It seems that opening Dragon before opening the document reduces the problem.

By which I mean that I usually open a document (and Wordfast), decide whether or not it's appropriate for Dragon, open Dragon, and then it sometimes appears that we get the jumping cursor problem. Sometimes not, of course.

Close everything - WF, then document, and Dragon - close the app, not just shut off the mike.
Then open Dragon, and once it's up, then open the document and off you jolly well go.

I'm not gonna claim it's 100% successful but it has worked consistently for me for the last couple of weeks.
(Famous last words - bet it never works again now!)


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