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| User | Thread poster: Luisa Ramos, CT "We better..." or "We had better..." - To English grammar experts |
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Luisa Ramos, CT 
United States
Local time: 21:42
  Member (2004)
English to Spanish
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I need an English grammar expert to answer this.
This morning I wrote to a friend: "We better send Brown back to school".
She replied (and I appreciate the fact that she helps me improve my English): "We had better send Brown back to school".
I believe both expressions are correct, and I believe there is an implied warning in "had better" that does not apply in this case. I admire her knowledge of her native language and always follow her advice without taking any offense, however, this time I need an expert's opinion to convince me that I should not say "We better this or that".
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INDER M. SINGH
United States
Local time: 21:42
Hindi to English
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I agree that "had better" implies an imperative "or else this or that....."
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Alfa Trans
Finland
Local time: 04:42
Member
English to Finnish
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| | Had better is correct | Apr 19, 2010 |
We use “had better” plus the infinitive without “to” to give advice. Although “had” is the past form of “have”, we use “had better” to give advice about the present or future.
•You'd better tell her everything.
•I'd better get back to work.
•We'd better meet early.
The negative form is “had better not”.
•You'd better not say anything.
•I'd better not come.
•We'd better not miss the start of his presentation.
We use “had better” to give advice about specific situations, not general ones. If you want to talk about general situations, you must use “should”.
•You should brush your teeth before you go to bed.
•I shouldn't listen to negative people.
•He should dress more appropriately for the office.
When we give advice about specific situations, it is also possible to use “should”.
•You shouldn't say anything.
•I should get back to work.
•We should meet early.
However, when we use “had better” there is a suggestion that if the advice is not followed, that something bad will happen.
•You'd better do what I say or else you will get into trouble.
•I'd better get back to work or my boss will be angry with me.
•We'd better get to the airport by five or else we may miss the flight.
http://www.englishgrammarsecrets.com/hadbetter/menu.php
When we speak, we just say "we'd better", so maybe you have not heard the "d" there.
[Edited at 2010-04-19 14:21 GMT]
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John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 21:42
Member (2008)
French to English
| | "We had better", not "We better" | Apr 19, 2010 |
"We better" is not correct, it should be "We had better". "Better" in this sentence would be an adverb. However, "send" in this case would be in the present indicative tense and cannot be qualified by "better".
"Had better" is in itself a "modal verb" which changes the mood of the sentence (from a statement of fact to a statement of "comparative wisdom").
In spoken English, there's often an almost inaudible "'d", as in "We'd better". So people get used to not hearing the "had". But it must be there, otherwise it's incorrect.
[Edited at 2010-04-19 14:25 GMT]
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Bilbo Baggins
Spain
Catalan to English
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Luisa Ramos, CT wrote:
"We better send Brown back to school".
She replied (and I appreciate the fact that she helps me improve my English): "We had better send Brown back to school".
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"We better" is definitely not correct. It may "seem" so, because it's often barely perceptible when heard spoken.
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Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 03:42
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
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David Wright
Austria
Local time: 03:42
Member (2007)
German to English
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| | You better as a threat/warning | Apr 19, 2010 |
You better get ready or you'll miss the bus
You better get your homework done young lady or there'll be no telly tonight
Not sure whether I would use the 'd there, though I suspect it ought to be there (Lancashire dialect possibly)
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:42
Member (2008)
Italian to English
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"we had better" or (colloquially) "we'd better".
NEVER "we better" unless this is very colloquial, e.g. part of the dialogue of a Western movie, as in "we better saddle up and light out o' here".
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Luisa Ramos, CT
United States
Local time: 21:42
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER | | Thanks to all | Apr 19, 2010 |
Thank you for this discussion, your opinions, and the references. My friend is right, once again.
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John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 21:42
Member (2008)
French to English
| | You'd better | Apr 19, 2010 |
David Wright wrote:
You better get ready or you'll miss the bus
You better get your homework done young lady or there'll be no telly tonight
Not sure whether I would use the 'd there, though I suspect it ought to be there (Lancashire dialect possibly) |
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You better include the "had" or it'll be incorrect....
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Amy Williams
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:42
Italian to English
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Spoken or written?
I use the spoken "we better" all the time, and so do most of my peers. "We better wash the car - it's covered in volcanic ash." Yes, grammar police, whip me now.
"We had better wash the car because it is covered in volcanic ash" might go down well in well-to-do circles, but I think my friends might just laugh.
As for writing it, I'd probably opt for "We'd better...". I reckon I'd be more likely to use something along the lines of "We should really..." instead, though.
Just my tuppenceworth.
Cheers,
Amy
PS your friend is harsh!
[Edited at 2010-04-19 16:13 GMT]
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David Wright
Austria
Local time: 03:42
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
| | But what is incorrect | Apr 19, 2010 |
I have a feeling that at least in quick spoken english the had is not necessarily pronounced. Of course in writing it is a requisite, and the following refrence would suggest that there is a choice:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/you%20better%20believe%20it!
I suspect it is one of those cases where we claim we say one thing but in fact say something else.
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Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 03:42
Member
Italian to English
| | Intrinsic and extrinsic uses of modals | Apr 19, 2010 |
Grammarians distinguish the "intrinsic" or "deontic" uses of modal verbs, which imply some degree of human control over events, from "extrinsic", or "epistemic", uses, where the modals express human judgements about what may or may not happen.
The opposition between the two classes is exploited in various ways. For example, deontic modals are sometimes replaced by epistemic ones to make an order sound more polite: "you'd better go now" (epistemic/extrinsic) sounds less aggressive than "you must go now" (deontic/intrinsic).
As Amy says, the "'d" can easily disappear in speech but most listeners will mentally add it back, as they do with other grammatically relevant sounds that vanish in the syllable-timed rhythms of spoken English.
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Neil Coffey
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:42
Member (2009)
French to English
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| | Yes, writing had/'d is the "full" form | Apr 19, 2010 |
David Wright wrote:
I have a feeling that at least in quick spoken english the had is not necessarily pronounced. Of course in writing it is a requisite
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Essentially, I think it's fair to say that with "had" (but usually contracted) is the "full" form. But there's a phonetic process going on that confuses the matter.
In normal speech, the [d] sound that constitutes the word "had" tends to be assimilated with ("pronounced in the same plase as") the [b] sound of "better", so that in effect what people actually say is "you'b better...". Whether or not the verb "had" is present or not then essentially comes down to the subtle difference in length of a [b] sound-- so that there could well be uncertaintly in some cases.
A similar phenomen occurs when you say e.g. "good morning"-- if you're a native speaker of English, then probably what you actually say is "goo[b] morning".
So which should you write? If you just want a neutral style of written English, I would definitely include the "had" (contracted or not). If you deliberately want to immitate the above process -- i.e. if you're particularly wanting to immitate the features of informal speech in the way you write-- then you could write "You better ...".
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Brian Young
United States
Local time: 18:42
Danish to English
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I agree with all the comments about "had better", but you would do well to write "we should". "Had better" is a terrible sounding phrase that I would never use. It has a tinge of "hillbillyese",at least in my ears.
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The translation workplace 
