Oliver Walter United Kingdom Local time: 02:48 Member (2005) German to English + ...
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This aspect is not difficult
Nov 16, 2010
Alex Lago wrote:
In my opinion it is very difficult to say what is correct or incorrect English as there is no generally recognized body that controls the language, as opposed to let's say Spanish which has the Academias de la Lengua from the different countries who speak Spanish that get together and decide what correct Spanish is (in fact they recently brought out the new Spanish grammar).
...
This lets English grow and adapt to new usages much quicker than Spanish but makes it difficult sometimes to know what is correct.
Yes, for some aspects of English, but I can't accept that it might be correct for a clearly plural subject (e.g. "things that") to take a singular verb ("pains me"). When I wote that they literally don't know what they are saying, I effectively meant that they don't realise that in this example the subject of "pain(s)" is "things", not "one of".
Oliver
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Daina Jauntirans United States Local time: 20:48 Member (2005) German to English + ...
Hmmm, interesting
Nov 17, 2010
I posed this question to an English professor, who is a stickler for proper usage and grammar, and an English (ESL) teacher & both said they would use the singular verb in these examples. These are not people who take language lightly, so I wonder if this isn't really a matter of UK/US usage or simply a rule that has changed over time.
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Paul Dixon Brazil Local time: 22:48 Member (2009) Portuguese to English + ...
I go for the plural
Nov 17, 2010
I would use the plural form definitely.
"One of the things that annoy me is X ..."
You could always get out of this discussion by saying:
"Several things annoy me: one of them is X ..."
or
"Out of all things that annoy me, one worthy of mention is X ..."
or even
"... X definitely annoys me, among other things."
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Oliver Walter United Kingdom Local time: 02:48 Member (2005) German to English + ...
TOPIC STARTER
They are wrong!
Nov 17, 2010
Daina Jauntirans wrote:
I posed this question to an English professor, who is a stickler for proper usage and grammar, and an English (ESL) teacher & both said they would use the singular verb in these examples. These are not people who take language lightly, so I wonder if this isn't really a matter of UK/US usage or simply a rule that has changed over time.
No: either they didn't understand the question, you asked them the wrong question or they really are ignorant of the basics of English grammar. In the four examples I gave in my first posting, I posed an open question ("Your comments?") but I had then, and I have now, no doubt about what is correct.
Anybody who thinks the singular is correct, is implying it is correct to say something about "the things that pains me", "the things that does work", "councils that has been struggling", and "investors who pushes Smith". Do they think those are correct?
Of course it's not a rule that has changed over time. There is no valid rule that says a plural subject (things, councils, investors) takes a singular verb (pains, does, has been, pushes).
If your professor and teacher friend claim that the subjects of these verbs are the preceding singular nouns ("one of the things", "one of the councils", "one of the investors", I have to conclude that they do not understand English grammar (American or British) and in particular the role in these examples of the relative pronoun "that" or "who".
(Charlie's posting on 16 Nov, paragraph beginning "Looked at another way", explains the probable cause of the confusion - yes it is a confusion, even if the speakers did not know it.)
Oliver
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Hermeneutica United Kingdom Local time: 03:48 Member (2002) Dutch to English + ...
Oliver is right, full stop!
Dec 5, 2010
There's no question, and there should be no argument. Verb should be in the plural. i.e. e.g.
"one of the things that work" - because there are several things that work. As simple as that.
Have fun all on this second Sunday of Advent!
Dee
Oliver Walter wrote:
I frequently hear and read (here in the UK) a grammatical error which some people may think is now so common that it is acceptable, although to me it is definitely wrong, unacceptable, and I can't imagine it ever becoming considered to be correct. It usually consists of a sentence containing "one of" followed by a relative clause with an (incorrectly) singular verb. Examples, from what are normally regarded as respectable sources (wrongly singular verb underlined):
"One of the things that pains me, Jonathan..." (BBC radio, September 2010)
"That's one of the things that does work about the..." (BBC radio, September 1020)
"One of the councils that has been struggling with the consequences of..." (BBC radio, July 2010)
"In the meantime, should you be one of the investors who pushes Smith towards his first £300m?" (Money Week, November 2010)
Your comments?
Oliver
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