I am confronted with the following problem, and I say "problem" because it is really turning into one.
My partner (Brazilian, speaking PT) and I (half Belgian, half British, speaking quite a few languages fluently) have recently moved to the UK (beginning of January).
We "fled" Brazil because of the security issue and decided to settle in the UK because my other half needs to learn EN.
That is where the problem starts; we have been speaking Portuguese since the beginning and EN is the first foreign language that he will learn. Now, I am confident that he eventually will learn, but at the moment it is very difficult. He is taking lessons 4 hours a day at a good language school and should be starting to make some progress. The thing is that I (and I think the problem lies with me, not with him) don't seem to notice this progress.
I feel that he still makes the same (beginner's) mistakes he made three months ago, and have the impression that he doesn't want to put in an effort because he refuses to speak EN to me, whereas I have caught him speaking EN (admittedly simple English, but English nevertheless) with other people.
What am I doing wrong? Although I am fluent in a couple of languages I have no experience in teaching languages, and perhaps I am just too demanding (which is quite possible) or am tackling this the wrong way and am not receptive to problems related to learning a first foreign language, or.....
If there is anybody who has experience wit this and/or recognizes this, I would really appreciate if you could give some hints or just explain how to overcome this. Any advice would be more than welcome!
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Tom in London United Kingdom Local time: 05:52 Member (2008) Italian to English
CHange
Apr 12, 2011
If there is anybody who has experience wit this and/or recognizes this, I would really appreciate if you could give some hints or just explain how to overcome this. Any advice would be more than welcome!
Many years ago I had a similar problem when I went to Italy to live with my Italian girlfriend. She and I had been used to speaking to each other in English because my understanding of Italian was zero.
For the first few weeks in Italy I gradually eased myself into the Italian language: reading Italian newspapers, watching Italian TV, listening to the Italian radio, and trying to speak to Italians (but I was terrified!).
My girlfriend was kind but firm, and told me what I already knew: that at some point I was going to have to adopt Italian and speak to her in Italian !
One evening she told me would cook dinner but that I had to go and buy all the ingredients - in Italian. It was a question of "speak Italian or go hungry"- so I spoke Italian.
My advice is: be kind but firm with your boyfriend. When you go out together insist that he does the talking.
Set a date on which you and he will begin to converse in English only.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
FarkasAndras Hungary Local time: 06:52 English to Hungarian + ...
Leave him alone
Apr 12, 2011
IPtranslate wrote:
he refuses to speak EN to me, whereas I have caught him speaking EN (admittedly simple English, but English nevertheless) with other people.
That's probably because he knows you speak good English and it's a bit pressuring to be confronted with being "inferior" and having his English corrected by you.
I'd suggest letting him get on with it without pressure from you. You live in the UK, he's exposed to English everywhere and needs it in daily life, he's doing an intensive language course; there's no way for him not to learn the language - unless you live in a PT-speaking enclave of sorts, which you don't, it seems. If I were you, I'd provide some gentle encouragement without getting too involved. Let him come to you and ask for your help.
Of course if you two started speaking English to each other, that would help... but that's not feasible until he is reasonably fluent in English, and he/you may not feel like it even when he already is.
In essence, the exact opposite of what Tom says. One man's meat, I guess...
[Edited at 2011-04-12 07:58 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Three months is a very short time to tackle a first foreign language as an adult. For your partner, it's a triple whammy: new language, culture and climate.
Although you apparently have a knack for languages, remember that for the vast majority of people, learning a language is a very difficult endeavour. Have you perhaps forgotten what that first "sink or swim" feeling is like?
It is not just intellectual, or about learning verbs and word lists. It is emotional, too. Your partner has gone from being able to communicate 100% of his thoughts in perfectly nuanced and reasoned sentences to understanding and being understood 0% of the time and expressing himself on a par with a two-year-old.
Also consider that once you speak one language to a person, it feels extremely strange to switch - that is the case for my sister and me. Although we live in the same foreign country, we simply cannot speak to each other in our second language - it is a feeling too bizarre for words.
Some practical tips: resist the urge to correct him or he will clam up. Resist the urge to finish sentences for him and refuse to become his translator, for example at restaurants. Stand patiently and silently while he orders his hamburger and fries, no matter how long it takes. That's how he will learn.
Perhaps you overhear him speaking English to others because he is saying what he learned in his beginner's courses: "My name is... I am from...". Not the sort of stuff he says to you much! As your partner, naturally he wants to keep speaking to you in his mother tongue, to communicate meaningfully and make sure what he says makes sense. Being surrounded 24/7 by a low buzz of incomprehensible speech is mentally and emotionally trying - home is a refuge. All the best.
[Edited at 2011-04-12 09:33 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Marie-Hélène Hayles Italy Local time: 06:52 Member (2004) Italian to English + ...
Only speak English with him
Apr 12, 2011
I had a similar experience to Tom, although my partner was much stricter than Tom's girlfriend - he told me we were only going to speak in Italian from now on in the car on the way home from the airport!
It was tough, but it really worked - there's nothing like full immersion for making you learn fast.
My advice to you would be to refuse to speak Portuguese at all* - but don't pick him up on his errors, unless you literally can't understand what he's trying to say. And don't worry about them, either. At this stage fluency and, above all, confidence are far more important than accuracy.
* Obviously, if something important needs to be discussed, you can switch languages to do it if necessary.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Nicole Schnell United States Local time: 21:52 Member English to German + ...
Spouses never make good teachers
Apr 12, 2011
IPtranslate wrote:
I feel that he still makes the same (beginner's) mistakes he made three months ago, and have the impression that he doesn't want to put in an effort because he refuses to speak EN to me, whereas I have caught him speaking EN (admittedly simple English, but English nevertheless) with other people.
What am I doing wrong?
I have been living with a man who does not speak a single word of my native language for 15 years now.
However, when we went to Germany for a week a few years ago (I was attending a ProZ Powwow in Berlin), he was running around all by himself, made friends, went shopping and learned more German from his new friends than I could ever have taught him. I guess it's a guy-thing. Guys don't like to be treated like children/students by their spouses. It's one of their lovable weaknesses.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Michael Wetzel Germany Local time: 06:52 German to English
= same as Marie-Hélène, her post was not up yet
Apr 12, 2011
Hello,
When I moved to Germany, my German was terrible. My wife put up with it and even managed to enjoy many of my mistakes - some of them for years. I worked hard with grammar books, vocabulary, reading, watching movies and TV, etc. and she was patient and determined and it worked.
My advice: (1) Try to get HIM to insist that you speak English together. (2) Try to figure out what he is trying to say. Worry only about communication and not about correctness.
In fact, I would suggest that you completely ignore mistakes unless he asks you about them or you occasionally can't help yourself.
Sincerely,
Michael
[Edited at 2011-04-12 09:58 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 05:52 Member (2007) English + ...
Ego is everything
Apr 12, 2011
Hello,
I don't have any direct experience of this but I have related experience as I've been teaching English for 12 years now.
One job I have done is coaching bilingual French kids for the IGCSE English exam. I did this successfully, until it came to coaching my own son and that turned into a catastrophe to the extent that we paid for someone else to coach him! Nothing to do with my ability to teach, nor his ability to learn (in fact, he got a good pass) - just that there were relational problems.
I'm sure that's what you've got here. Your partner can, and will, learn English. But not from you, with all the ego-attacking implied criticism in correcting him. I don't know, but it could be that his ego's suffering a lot at the moment. There's you, fluent in several languages, doing your job, interacting with neighbours and friends. And he's rather had the rug pulled out from under him. You don't say whether he is or was working.
All I can say is that I don't think it will hold him back to speak Portuguese with you at home, as long as he has an active life outside the home (where he will be forced to use English).
I think it's fair to insist on English in mixed company, though. Inviting English people into your home, then speaking Portuguese would be distinctly rude.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Heinrich Pesch Finland Local time: 07:52 Member (2003) Finnish to German + ...
Don't worry too much
Apr 12, 2011
Remember that for him the change is really enormous. Do not try to switch your conversation into English, it could destroy your relationship. Invite English friends, relatives etc.
Its up to him if he wants to learn or not. Many immigrants stick to their native language and are happy in their own community.
Learning language is not related to intelligence. It is just one ability. Some don't have it and will not learn foreign languages properly, at least not as grown-ups anymore.
@Tom: were there no supermarkets in Italy? Why speak Italian when all you need is show your card at the check-out?
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Tomás Cano Binder, CT Spain Local time: 06:52 Member (2005) English to Spanish + ...
Exactly
Apr 12, 2011
Michael Wetzel wrote:
My advice: (1) Try to get HIM to insist that you speak English together. (2) Try to figure out what he is trying to say. Worry only about communication and not about correctness.
In fact, I would suggest that you completely ignore mistakes unless he asks you about them or you occasionally can't help yourself.
I completely agree. I am more the less flexible kind when it comes to pronunciation and mistakes, but it is clearly counterproductive, since a big part of the ability to learn a language is to have some pleasure in the process.
If you are too strict with pronunciation and grammar... you will certainly take the pleasure out of the matter. In more than one sense...
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
My advice: (1) Try to get HIM to insist that you speak English together. (2) Try to figure out what he is trying to say. Worry only about communication and not about correctness.
In fact, I would suggest that you completely ignore mistakes unless he asks you about them or you occasionally can't help yourself.
Sincerely,
Michael
I have already come to that conclusion myself, but it is nice to have it more or less "confirmed" by others, although it is definitely NOT easy to put this into practice.
Perhaps I am too demanding, but I get the impression that he isn't practicing; I don't seem to be able to make him understand that listening and reading (not out loud) aren't enough; he needs to practice out loud. The problem is that for a Brazilian, with absolutely no connection to English whatsoever (no EN on radio, TV, etc...), English sounds are "weird", to say the least, not to mention the fact that there is most often no connection whatsoever between what we read and what we say....That is why I continue to hammer on his practicing speaking...it just doesn't seem to reach him. Hence my cry for help.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Heinrich Pesch Finland Local time: 07:52 Member (2003) Finnish to German + ...
How about the other way round?
Apr 12, 2011
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I think it's fair to insist on English in mixed company, though. Inviting English people into your home, then speaking Portuguese would be distinctly rude.
If there is only one from an English speaking country all in the party have to switch to English or are frowned upon as unpolite and backward.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Tom in London United Kingdom Local time: 05:52 Member (2008) Italian to English
Making mistakes
Apr 12, 2011
Michael Wetzel wrote:
....my German was terrible.....my mistakes ....
The Italians have a very nice way of letting you know you've made a mistake.
I was lucky in Italy to have friends who laughed at my mistakes and put me right. I think it's very important to stamp out mistakes immediately, and not let them become a habit because they then become almost impossible to eradicate.
My worst ever mistake in Italian was at a rather important dinner at which there were figs on the table and I asked for one. Our Italian friends, reading this, will know the terrible mistake I made.
Luckily, a witty man offered me his wife, and everyone laughed.
But I'm still embarrassed.....
[Edited at 2011-04-12 09:26 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
I understand your partner. When I went to Spain, I lived with a Swedish family and they tried to speak Spanish with me in order for me to learn, but I felt silly trying to speak Spanish with them because I knew it would be much easier to speak Swedish as all of us understood Swedish. Nevertheless, I had no problem in speaking Spanish with Spaniards. Then eventually, when my Spanish got better I had no problem in speaking Spanish with the Swedish family either, so just give your partner some time to get used to the new situation and eventually I am sure he will speak English with you too.
Kind regards,
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
I'm sure that's what you've got here. Your partner can, and will, learn English. But not from you, with all the ego-attacking implied criticism in correcting him. I don't know, but it could be that his ego's suffering a lot at the moment. There's you, fluent in several languages, doing your job, interacting with neighbours and friends. And he's rather had the rug pulled out from under him. You don't say whether he is or was working.
Perhaps I should pay more attention to this; I have suggested for him to take up some job, any job at the moment. Although he cannot yet work in his field of expertise (he's got a Master's in Computer networking) because of the language issue, he could do something else, just to interact with other people and to be forced to speak EN....it would also be nice for his ego, as you said....
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
SDL Trados Studio 2011 is the latest market-leading translation memory software from SDL. Now with Track Changes, Bilingual Word Files support, new Display Filter, AutoSuggest and more great details.
PerfectIt helps deliver error-free documents. It improves consistency, ensures quality and helps to enforce style guides. It’s a powerful tool for pro users, and comes with the assurance of a 30-day money back guarantee.
The translation workplace 
