Mary Holihan United States Local time: 00:58 Member (2010) French to English
Dove/Pigeon
Jan 31, 2005
This has been a fun posting! It is so unique that only translators could get so revved up over a topic like this. As mentioned, they are both family Columbidae, and Peterson's Field Guide to the Birds lists 13 types of dove and 4 types of pigeon in the US (Eastern) edition. There are many more types of grey doves than white here in US. They are usually smaller and rounder than pigeons. In NYC, pigeons are called "flying rats" because they are such scavengers. How to explain the difference to people studying English? I would say it is like comparing two similar breeds of dogs: let's say the standard poodle vs. the toy.
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Berni Armstrong Spain Local time: 06:58 Member (2002) English + ...
Ornithological Racism!
Feb 14, 2005
As pointed out above, Pigeons get bad press in English and Doves get all the kudos.
Common, grey, city pigeons are known as "micks" in the area where I come from. (Liverpool) They are also known as "rats with wings" - and seen as great pests. The use of the word "micks" is a racist slur, since it comes from a slang word for the Irish, once viewed as unwelcome and omnipresent, just like the guano dropping hordes of pigeons in the city centre.
The dove on the other hand, gets its good press from the story of Noah, where it is the bird returning with an olive branch that marks the beginning of a new covenant for mankind - later added to by the rainbow. Of course, Picasso also helped make it popular in the 20th Century, as did the UN's adoption of one of Picasso's painted doves as a symbol of world peace.
I doubt if the laymen could tell the birds apart if it wasn't for the colour, and indeed, many European languages do not distinguish between them. So, in English at least, this really is a case of ornithological racism... Well, that and the fact that the grey variety have adapted so well to cities and multiplied to often unmanageable proportions, while the dove has largely kept out of mankind's way. (If you were the bird of peace, you'd know why, sadly )
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Monika Rozwarzewska Poland Local time: 06:58 Member (2006) English to Polish + ...
TOPIC STARTER
thank you everyone
Feb 14, 2005
seems that such a little "unimportant" thing can start an interesting discussion!
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FreeFlyer United Kingdom Local time: 05:58 English
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Sep 24, 2006
Sarah Brenchley wrote:
I would explain it as a dove is white (traditionally a symbol of peace) and a pigeon is grey/black/white and commonly found in cities.
Hope it helps.
Sarah.
Thats not true... Pigeons can be white and can be many other colors. The common Pigeon in the US is a none native species found in Europe. Doves live everywhere and can be many many colors...
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FreeFlyer United Kingdom Local time: 05:58 English
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Sep 24, 2006
French2English wrote:
In all the replies, I don't think anyone has pointed out that the connotations of the word 'dove' are usually positive and those of the word 'pigeon' are usually negative. This is because the birds classified as doves rather than pigeons are usually prettier and have long been associated with love and peace. The birds classified as pigeons are nowadays generally considered to be a nuisance (except to people who like or actually keep them as pets!) and there are a few expressions including the word which also tend to have negative connotations, such as 'pigeon-toed', 'pigeon-chested', or even 'pigeon-holed'.
There's a similar thing with raven and crow. A lot of native English speakers would not be able to tell you the difference between the two - and indeed there may not even be a difference, But 'raven' sounds grand and striking and has a good connotation - conjuring up the image of the famous birds at the Tower of London and all the history and tradition - whereas 'crow' has a bad connotation and has even come to be used pejoratively about women (what a surprise!) to describe an elderly woman.
I don't know if this helps - but I really do think it's more to do with the associations of the words in question and how they are used than the scientific meanings when the two things are so similar that it's difficult to tell the difference.
Also there is appearance difference vs crows and ravens. Look at the wings, and the size of the bird and the beak. Also there are many types of crows and ravens in the world. And to find out the certain bird you must study ravens and crows same goes for pigeons and doves. There is also many types of seagulls and other birds out there and not just one type of animal...
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The translation workplace 
Well, that and the fact that the grey variety have adapted so well to cities and multiplied to often unmanageable proportions, while the dove has largely kept out of mankind's way. (If you were the bird of peace, you'd know why, sadly
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