Invoicing from the Canaries? Sorry, no Spanish yet!
Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 00:05 Member (2007) English + ...
Feb 3
Hola,
I'm really sorry but my Spanish has started from scratch and one month of lessons hasn't taught me enough to do this in the correct language. I hope English will be OK. I'll be moving to Fuerteventura in a couple of months and hope to make great strides in the language then.
I can see this has been discussed in Spanish several times, but I am very confused about the various taxes to go (or not) on the invoice.
What I (think I) know:
For clients in the Canaries, there's the local 5% tax to add to the invoice.
For clients outside the European Union, there's no tax - it simply doesn't apply.
But what about invoices to mainland Spain and other EU member countries? These account for most of my clientele at the moment. Here in France I am not VAT-registered, but I do have a VAT number to quote on invoices to non-French EU clients. Will I have to add anything to my invoices? Probably not an amount, but is there some sort of phrase to say that I am not located in the "Fiscal EU", even though my invoices are governed by Spanish law and in Euros and the Canaries are actually in the EU?
It's all rather confusing as the Canaries seem to be in a "halfway house" situation - neither fully in nor fully out of the EU. So, comments from those who know about the specific situation there, please.
Thanks very much for your help!
Sheila
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Emma Goldsmith Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2010) Spanish to English
Unas pistas...
Feb 3
Hi Sheila,
How exciting, relocating to the Canaries. With the cold snap that is biting in Madrid right now, I might just follow you!
I can't find any info about invoices to the EU. On mainland Spain, as you say, VAT is not charged so long as you're registered in VIES (with your Spanish NIF). But I don't know if that applies to the Canaries.
Hope someone resident in the Canaries can help it bit more.
Emma
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Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 00:05 Member (2007) English + ...
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Fuertaventura is suffering from the cold, too
Feb 3
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
How exciting, relocating to the Canaries. With the cold snap that is biting in Madrid right now, I might just follow you!
Hello Emma,
It's quite cold there too at the moment - the locals have been complaining bitterly about the temperature going as low as 13°C (virtually unheard of). Mind you, it's been 25+ and full sun later each day! I'd certainly notice the difference as the supposedly warm south of France is having a job getting to plus anything today.
Thanks very much for the links and the research. I'll have a closer look at the links and see if I can make some sense of them. My problem is one of finding what's relevant and what isn't, as I can't scan through anything quickly and understand it. I'll put these through dear old Google Translate and see if anything sensible comes out.
No 2 sounds a bit odd but I suppose it applies to all your invoices starting the next year. Bit difficult to write to all your clients in December, saying you've just gone over the limit and you need to change the invoice they paid months ago! That minimum for IGIC is something I didn't know about. I translate and teach, and even then I only work part-time, so I'll probably be below that limit as I believe education is exempt anyway. That's something I would expect a "gestor" to know about. But a lot of us freelance translators know from bitter experience that absolutely nobody is geared up to the needs of micro-businesses who export all over the world.
I can't find any info about invoices to the EU. On mainland Spain, as you say, VAT is not charged so long as you're registered in VIES (with your Spanish NIF). But I don't know if that applies to the Canaries.
That's part of the problem: I doubt I could be registered on VIES as I won't live in the VAT zone.
Anyway, thanks again for your help. Hope Madrid warms up soon!
Sheila
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neilmac Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2007) Spanish to English + ...
What - no VAT?
Feb 3
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
... On mainland Spain, as you say, VAT is not charged so long as you're registered in VIES (with your Spanish NIF).
This is news to me. I live in mainland Spain and I pay VAT on all my translation work that isn't literature or scientific research, which are VAT exempt (IVA exento según apdo. 26, punto 1º Artíc. 20 de Ley 37/1992 del IVA).
And, excuse my ignorance, but what is VIES? I've had a Spanish NIE for donkeys and this acronym is new to me. OK, never mind, I googled it. I found that site before and when I enter my details my number comes up as not valid: "No, invalid VAT number (please refer to FAQ, questions 7, 11, 12, 13 and 20 for more information)".
Valid or not, it doesn't stop Hacienda taking the money, or paying me my rebates, or deducting unpaid fines (which I am never notified are pending) from said rebates... so I just keep charging and paying VAT with clients in Spain and bill any clients outside Spain according to whatever their own particular instructions happen to be. I find that after jumping through so many hoops you tend to go off all kinds of spaghetti...
[Edited at 2012-02-03 18:40 GMT]
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Emma Goldsmith Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2010) Spanish to English
NIES and VIES
Feb 3
neilmac wrote:
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
... On mainland Spain, as you say, VAT is not charged so long as you're registered in VIES (with your Spanish NIF).
This is news to me. I live in mainland Spain and I pay VAT on all my translation work that isn't literature or scientific research, which are VAT exempt (IVA exento según apdo. 26, punto 1º Artíc. 20 de Ley 37/1992 del IVA).
I was referring to charging VAT on invoices to EU countries, not Spanish ones. If you register your NIE on VIES through Hacienda, then you don't charge VAT on your EU invoices. (The new number is your NIE preceded by "EN".)
A German agency I work for asks me to write the following on my invoices:
"VAT exempt invoice in application to article 196 in Directive 2006/112/EC. This service is subject to the VAT reverse charge."
You're quite right of course that VAT has to be added to all mainland Spain invoices.
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Alex Lago Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2009) English to Spanish + ...
I believe it works likes this
Feb 3
I think this is correct, but would suggest checking with a professional.
It all depends on who you are and who you are invoicing.
If you are company:
If you invoice a company, an autonomo or an individual:
In mainland Spain no IGIC
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC
If you are an autonomo:
If you invoice a company:
In mainland Spain no IGIC, deduct IRPF
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC, deduct IRPF (before adding IGIC)
If you invoice an autonomo:
In mainland Spain no IGIC, deduct IRPF
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC, deduct IRPF (before adding IGIC)
If you invoice an end client:
In mainland Spain no IGIC
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC
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Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 00:05 Member (2007) English + ...
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Wgy did I ask?????
Feb 3
Alex Lago wrote:
If you are company:
If you invoice a company, an autonomo or an individual:
In mainland Spain no IGIC
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC
If you are an autonomo:
If you invoice a company:
In mainland Spain no IGIC, deduct IRPF
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC, deduct IRPF (before adding IGIC)
If you invoice an autonomo:
In mainland Spain no IGIC, deduct IRPF
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC, deduct IRPF (before adding IGIC)
If you invoice an end client:
In mainland Spain no IGIC
In Europe no IGIC
In Canaries add IGIC
I knew it would be complicated!
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philgoddard United States Local time: 18:05 German to English + ...
.
Feb 3
What a lovely place to relocate to!
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Parrot Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2002) Spanish to English + ...
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wee confusion
Feb 4
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
(The new number is your NIE preceded by "EN".)
"ES" indicating where operator pays taxes.
... to add to the confusion. Alex put it wonderfully well, but I think I'll stick to Canary Island holidays
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Emma Goldsmith Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2010) Spanish to English
typo
Feb 4
Parrot wrote:
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
(The new number is your NIE preceded by "EN".)
"ES" indicating where operator pays taxes.
... to add to the confusion. Alex put it wonderfully well, but I think I'll stick to Canary Island holidays
Thanks, Parrot, for correcting the very misleading typo.
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Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 00:05 Member (2007) English + ...
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Comments and further questions
Feb 4
So, thanks for all the comments. Let me summarise what I think will be my case as an autonomo based in the Canaries, with thanks principally to Alex:
1) I never add VAT/IVA to my invoices, repeat NEVER
2) I only add IGIC on invoices within the Canaries, and then only if I earn over the limit that Emma specified
3) when I invoice a private person (e.g. if I edit their CV - as I do), I don't add/subtract anything, apart from maybe adding IGIC if they too are based in the Canaries
3) when I invoice a business (i.e. company or freelancer) anywhere on Spanish territory, I deduct IRPF (before adding IGIC if applicable) so that the government gets its hands on some tax before I spend it all
4) I treat EU countries apart from Spain in the same way as non-EU countries; i.e. there's (1) the Canaries, (2) the rest of Spain, (3) the rest of the world. That means nothing added and nothing subtracted on invoices to France.
Alex: I'm presuming that by "end client" you're thinking of private individuals - is that right? I imagine invoicing a company that requires translations would be the same as invoicing a translation agency.
That clears up a lot for me. The only thing left is how to explain all that to clients who have no idea that the Canary Islands are (a) in the EU, (b) in the Euro zone and (c) NOT in the VAT zone. After all, if Neilmac in Spain doesn't know, is my end-client in the south of France who never invoices outside France likely to know???
Alex suggests I check with a professional, and I certainly agree that I'll have to run through this again before writing my first invoices. Can someone tell me who I should discuss it with? Would a "gestor" be the person to go to, or a "contable"? I need a job title so I can look for them in the Paginas Amarillas. I've looked under "Gestion fiscal" but there isn't a single one listed on Fuerteventura!
Maybe see you around the bars in Corralejo, Parrot? I'll recognise you from your photo, no problem, and I'll be with hubby, John, who'll be providing the musical entertainment.
Sheila
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Alex Lago Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2009) English to Spanish + ...
Yes
Feb 4
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Alex: I'm presuming that by "end client" you're thinking of private individuals - is that right? I imagine invoicing a company that requires translations would be the same as invoicing a translation agency.
Yes sorry for not being more clear
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Would a "gestor" be the person to go to, or a "contable"?
You need a gestor for this and if looking in the yellow pages you should look for "gestorias"
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And yes, it is cold right now, no more than 14° in the morning. But in the afternoon you can sit outside in shorts and a shirt.
And yes again, it is tricky. But as I say, it's easier to deal with complications when you're at 2 minutes to the beach.
Alex has put it all together very well. The only problem will be to find a "gestor" who has an idea of the translation business.
As I read from your last post you'll come to Corralejo. Well, that's where I am. May be we'll meet some day.
Good luck!
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Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 00:05 Member (2007) English + ...
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Someone who lives the life!
Feb 4
Ursula Leberl wrote:
As I read from your last post you'll come to Corralejo. Well, that's where I am. May be we'll meet some day.
Hello there, neighbour! It's not a big place - in my week's holiday (actually, house-hunting trip) I ran into several people from the complex where I was staying and there were a couple of faces I recognised on the plane home. Although we'll be living 3km outside town, we won't be far from one of the many live music bars most evenings.
I daresay you have clients in Germany if not other EU countries. Do you find it causes any problems that Fuerteventura has such an odd tax status? Don't they worry about your inability to provide them with a VAT number even though you work in Spain?
Sheila
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Alex Lago Spain Local time: 01:05 Member (2009) English to Spanish + ...
You do need a VAT number
Feb 5
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Don't they worry about your inability to provide them with a VAT number even though you work in Spain?
You will need a VAT number, called a NIF or CIF, which would normally match your NIE if you are an autonomo and which you will be given if you are a company.
Don't get confused just because you aren't adding VAT to your invoices doesn't mean you don't have to register with the tax authority in order to be able to legally issue invoices, so you will have to apply for a NIF/CIF, that is your Tax ID number for all tax purposes not just VAT, it just so happens that you also use it for VAT, but your income/company tax will be paid using that number and if you want to deduct any business expenses (telephone, internet, office materials, etc..) you will need the invoices made out to that number.
You have to include your NIF/CIF in all your invoices whether or not the invoices includes VAT.
When requesting your NIF/CIF remember to ask to be included in the REGISTRO OPERADORES INTRACOMUNITARIOS EN ESPAÑA that way your NIF/CIF will be recorded in the VIES system Emma mentioned.
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and I'll be with hubby, John, who'll be providing the musical entertainment.
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