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| User | Thread poster: Elizabeth Tauroza Age discrimination in job posting on Proz |
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Elizabeth Tauroza 
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:54
Italian to English
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I would just like to point out that a job for IT-EN translators recently advertised on Proz must surely be in breach of both Italian and EU legislation regarding age discrimination. It states "Età: 25-40 anni" (Age: 25-40 years old).
Apart from the blatant disregard for anti-discrimination legislation, I can't help wondering why they are looking for translators in that age range. Do they think that people start getting senile after 40 years old? Or is it that they are hoping candidates will apply lower rates if they are younger?
Or maybe they're just following Berlusconi's example?
Elizabeth Tauroza
[Edited at 2011-05-02 08:12 GMT]
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT
Spain
Local time: 01:54
  Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| | Ask the outsourcer | May 1, 2011 |
Elizabeth Tauroza wrote:
I would just like to point out that the job for IT-EN translators advertised on Proz (job no. 525350) on April 28 must surely be in breach of both Italian and EU legislation regarding age discrimination. It states "Età: 25-40 anni" (Age: 25-40 years old). |
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I reckon in this case they must have a reason. Why don't you ask them?
I have been asked my age many times, since some companies fear that an older translator will not translate children's stuff or teenager texts with the desired flair. Luckily, I was able to prove them wrong every time...
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Susanna Garcia
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:54
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
| | discrimination | May 1, 2011 |
I did wonder at the time but as other agencies seem to have no problem with my age, I didn't pursue it further.
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Alexander Chisholm
Italy
Local time: 01:54
Member (2003)
Italian to English
+ ...
| | I don't know if the law has changed..... | May 1, 2011 |
But it certainly used to be OK for companies to specify age in newspaper adverts for jobs in Italy.
[Edited at 2011-05-01 20:07 GMT]
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Woodstock
Germany
Local time: 01:54
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
| | Since ProZ is based in the US | May 1, 2011 |
I assume that the laws of the United States apply, just as the site is probably not obliged to comply with EU law for websites. I would think it's up to the ProZ management to ensure that the job postings do not violate the US laws on discrimination, but I have no idea how that would work or how to go about it.
In fact, the US Department of Labor just implemented this new policy:
http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/crc/crc-internal/eeo.htm
U.S. Department of Labor Policy on Equal Employment Opportunity
I resolve the problem for myself by ignoring jobs that place any type of restrictions on age or unreasonable demands regarding credentials as I believe that 20+ years of experience in this business and good references should be more than enough proof.
Typo corrected on edit.
[Edited at 2011-05-02 10:09 GMT]
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The Misha
United States
Local time: 19:54
Russian to English
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| | There's nothing in the law - definitely not in US law - | May 1, 2011 |
to limit an outsourcer's freedom to select providers as he or she sees fit. We are not employees, and no such "protections" apply. If they want us with our hair died green or wearing polka dot T-shirts, they are fully entitled to specify that as a requirement - just as we as contractors are fully entitled to tell them to stick it you know where. If you want protection, get a job and join the union.
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Stanislaw Czech
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:55
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
| | But should we support it? | May 2, 2011 |
The Misha wrote:
to limit an outsourcer's freedom to select providers as he or she sees fit. We are not employees, and no such "protections" apply. If they want us with our hair died green or wearing polka dot T-shirts, they are fully entitled to specify that as a requirement - just as we as contractors are fully entitled to tell them to stick it you know where. If you want protection, get a job and join the union. |
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I guess that they can do that. On the other hand, should we support such attitude by quoting on jobs which have age, gender or similar restrictions?
S
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Elizabeth Tauroza
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:55
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | | Age discrimination | May 2, 2011 |
The Misha wrote:
to limit an outsourcer's freedom to select providers as he or she sees fit. We are not employees, and no such "protections" apply. If they want us with our hair died green or wearing polka dot T-shirts, they are fully entitled to specify that as a requirement - just as we as contractors are fully entitled to tell them to stick it you know where. If you want protection, get a job and join the union. |
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You seem to think it's personal. I'm not interested in applying for this job anyway and I don't want protection - I can protect myself (with the support of the law). I just find it unacceptable for Proz to allow discriminatory ads. Presumably they wouldn't allow an ad specifying "only white translators need apply" (or black/male/female/Christian/Jewish etc.) I believe that anti-discrimination laws apply to anybody advertising work irrespective of whether it's for self-employed "collaborators" or employees with contracts. They are entitled to specify the age/gender etc. if this is a requirement of the job. For example, if you're looking for a character in a film obviously you'd be entitled to state the age requirement. In this case I can't see any reason for an age requirement.
As regards the law in Italy, Alexander, I think it is against the law to discriminate (ref. DLGS 216/03 del 9 Luglio 2003) but like many laws in Italy it's widely disregarded.
E.
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jim summer
China
Member (2011)
English to Chinese
| | Age discrimination in job posting on Proz" | May 2, 2011 |
in China ,you may find age discrimination is everywhere in job markets. 35 -years-old is a base line.I mean if you are beyond 35 years old.you may unaccepted by many job offers.I don't know why.the majority just take it for granted.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| | Definitely illegal here | May 2, 2011 |
Elizabeth Tauroza wrote:
I would just like to point out that a job for IT-EN translators recently advertised on Proz must surely be in breach of both Italian and EU legislation regarding age discrimination. It states "Età: 25-40 anni" (Age: 25-40 years old). |
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This would definitely be illegal in the UK and the poster would be liable for prosecution.
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Catherine GUILLIAUMET
France
Local time: 01:55
Member
English to French
+ ...
| | The same in France ! | May 2, 2011 |
Tom in London wrote:
Elizabeth Tauroza wrote:
I would just like to point out that a job for IT-EN translators recently advertised on Proz must surely be in breach of both Italian and EU legislation regarding age discrimination. It states "Età: 25-40 anni" (Age: 25-40 years old). |
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This would definitely be illegal in the UK and the poster would be liable for prosecution. |
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We even have an official organism in charge of fighting all forms of discrimination : the HALDE =Haute Autorité de Lutte contre les Discriminations et pour l'Egalité.
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Susanna Garcia
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
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The Misha wrote:
to limit an outsourcer's freedom to select providers as he or she sees fit. We are not employees, and no such "protections" apply. If they want us with our hair died green or wearing polka dot T-shirts, they are fully entitled to specify that as a requirement - just as we as contractors are fully entitled to tell them to stick it you know where. If you want protection, get a job and join the union. |
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I think you're missing the point here, being freelance does not mean ignoring the illegal or unacceptable. I think Proz may have slipped up here and there may well be some behind the scenes investigating going on right now.
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Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 01:55
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| | The outsourcers should be left alone | May 2, 2011 |
I do not know the laws in these different countries. However, there is a clear economic principle here which shouldn't be meddled with.
If an outsourcer wants to do something stupid that hurts their business, they should be free to do so. It shouldn't be the EU's or anyone else's business how the company wants to run itself.
If the company passes over excellent translators for a superficial reason, they should be left to suffer without them. A smarter company will pick them up and put the stupid company out of business. A good way of mucking up an economy is attempting to "fix problems" such as these.
[Edited at 2011-05-02 13:38 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-05-02 13:38 GMT]
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Susanna Garcia
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
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By any chance are you free-to-employ-who-you-wanters under 40?
Thanks
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Paul Skidmore
Germany
Local time: 01:55
Member (2011)
German to English
| | Non-discrimination is an aspect of human dignity | May 2, 2011 |
I have to disagree with an earlier poster who appeared to suggest that outsourcers should be "left alone" when placing discriminatory adverts.
Whilst the details vary from country to country, age and many other forms of discrimination (sex, race, sexual orientation, disability to name but a few) are outlawed in many countries as a matter of constitutional principle often derived from or allied to the right to human dignity. The non-discrimination principle generally applies not only to employment but also to access to goods and services.
What action ProZ as the provider of this website has already taken or should be taking is another matter.
I for one would like to support Elizabeth in raising this issue.
Paul
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