| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Singular use of the word "they"/"their" in English? Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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| My advice to you is | Jul 24, 2008 |
[quote]Ramon Soto wrote:
Thus, in order to look professional and attentive to detail, most Spanish translators are reduced to painstakingly following the somewhat archaic rule in every occasion. This, for the benefit of those who haven't actually made the effort of educating themselves and staying up with the times.
do the right thing regardless of what your clients think. You have to write good, up-to-date Spanish. And the rule for the demonstratives is this:
Sea cual sea la función que desempeñen (adjetival o nominal), los demostrativos siempre son tónicos y pertenecen , por su forma, al grupo de palabras que deben escribirse sin tilde, según las reglas de la acentuación: todos salvo "aquel" son palabras llanas terminadas en vocal o en "s" y "aquel" es aguda terminada en "l".
Por lo tanto, solo cuando en una oración exista riesgo de ambiguedad porque el demostrativo pueda interpretarse en una u otra de las funciones antes señaladas, el demostrativo llevará obligatoriamente tilde en su uso pronominal.
Personalmente los escribo sin tilde y hago igual con "solo". Ese mismo día, el 27 de mayo, inicié un hilo en el foro de español titulado: "solo" con tilde diacrítico o sin él"
Saludos a todos
| | | | | Reference please | Jul 24, 2008 |
Terry Richards wrote:
I'm in favour of the "singular they" as being generally the lesser of the evils.
If it was good enough for Shakespeare...
Terry.
Would you be so kind as to give us an example from Shakespeare?
Thanks,
Janet
| | | | | Reference provided! | Jul 24, 2008 |
There's not a man I meet but doth salute me / As if I were their well-acquainted friend — Shakespeare, The Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3.
And every one to rest themselves betake — Shakespeare, The Rape of Lucrece.
T.
| | | | | They....but never "it" ....;-) | Jul 24, 2008 |
Just a comment...
Please never use "it" to refer to a human being.
Ok if referring to an animal.
In the options you list, I feel that the 4th is most acceptable. It is natural in spoken English. Have no fear using this option.
4) (use singular “they”) Ask the patient if they are feeling any discomfort in their legs and ask them to write their name in their diary. (seen as gram... See more Just a comment...
Please never use "it" to refer to a human being.
Ok if referring to an animal.
In the options you list, I feel that the 4th is most acceptable. It is natural in spoken English. Have no fear using this option.
4) (use singular “they”) Ask the patient if they are feeling any discomfort in their legs and ask them to write their name in their diary. (seen as grammatically incorrect by many speakers)
Cheers,
Rebecca ▲ Collapse
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| What is wanted, in short, is a kind of invisible gender neutrality | Jul 24, 2008 |
Patricia Rosas wrote:
What is wanted, in short, is a kind of invisible gender neutrality. There are many ways to achieve such language, but it takes thought and often some hard work.
Am I the only one who has considered inventing just such a thing. That is, a gender neutral singular third person? How about combining selected letters from the three different alternatives: she + he + it?
Can't give you my suggested combination as I'm unsure whether or not it would pass ProZ vetting.
On a serious note, I pluralise wherever possible. Alternatively use "he or she". Something I really dislike is the singular "theyself". As I can't get my tongue around this term, I avoid using it in writing. Shakespeare or no shakespeare.
| | | | Steven Capsuto 
United States
Local time: 23:33
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Back-translation | Jul 24, 2008 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote: Steven Capsuto wrote:
Here I'd go with the plural since it would cause no confusion.
Ask patients if they are feeling any discomfort in their legs, and ask them to write their name in their diary.
This is what I usually do, but the problem I had today was this was a back-translation and the use of the plural here would have confused the monolingual reviewer who would have questioned whether there was an error in the translation.
The client may well complain no matter how you solve this. If you use "he/she" the client will probably think that was used in the translation and might complain. If you use plural, ditto. If you use the singular "they," ditto.
If this client is the sort who complains about such subtleties, I suggest putting the whole sentence in plural and adding a Back-Translator's Note at the bottom of the page that says something like "Singular and gender-neutral in the translation."
Good luck with the project.
[Edited at 2008-07-24 23:09]
| | | | Rob Edwards
Local time: 04:33
Member (2008)
German to English
| they, their, them etc. is fine for UK usage | Jul 26, 2008 |
I looked this up a while ago in Fowler's (admittedly this is a guide for UK English) and found that it is perfectly acceptable and dates back to the 16th century. According to Fowler's: "The value of this device has been enhanced in recent years by its validity as a gender-neutral option in place of more awkward conventions such as he or she, his or hers, etc."
I hope this is useful.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:33
Member (2008)
Italian to English
When recently translating from Italian (where ("he" is still a norm accepted by women and men) for a piece of heavy machinery for pouring concrete, I came across several instances along the line of "when the operator has completed the process he must clean the equipment" and I left it as "he" because that is precisely what was in the mind of the writer.
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| depends on the context | Aug 23, 2008 |
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote: Patricia Rosas wrote:
What is wanted, in short, is a kind of invisible gender neutrality. There are many ways to achieve such language, but it takes thought and often some hard work. Am I the only one who has considered inventing just such a thing. That is, a gender neutral singular third person? How about combining selected letters from the three different alternatives: she + he + it?
I've actually come across sie (nominative) /hir (accusative) from time to time (I can't recall the contexts, but probably not too formal), and according to the Wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#New_pronouns_in_English
there are several other suggestions floating around.
My preference when translating is, generally, to use s/he or "he or she." I feel profoundly uncomfortable using the masculine singular in a generic sense.
There are times, when meaning is not altered unduly by recasting the sentence to plural, but I worked on a document last week where this would not have worked. At least, I don't think it would have. (an insurance rider in semi-legalese about the rights and duties of "the policyholder.") To change it throughout to "policyholders" for the sake of avoiding the "his or her" construction would have been too much of a change from the original text, IMHO.
There are certain documents where I would also be comfortable using "they" as a singular generic (less formal reports, memos, logbook entries, that kind of thing).
I would recommend exercising caution with taking the Chicago Manual of Style--intended above all as a guide for editors--as advice for translators. When I am working as a copyeditor I am licensed to take all kinds of liberties that I believe are beyond the scope of my role when I am working as a translator (unless I'm working under the specific understanding with the client that I am to translate *and* to CMS-ify)
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