| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | 4 pages, no number of words given, urgent, for a fixed fee, and they say it's easy. Should I? Thread poster: Tom in London
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Amy Duncan (X) 
Brazil
Local time: 19:08
Portuguese to English
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I'd ask them for a word count. That would settle it one way or the other for me.
Amy
| | | | milinad
Local time: 03:38
German to English
RichardDeegan wrote:
I NEVER accept work from someone who says it's "easy".This indicates first and foremost that they have a poor opinion of the work and the translator's task and/ or ability. Invariably accompanied by an unrealistic timeframe or pricing. If it's so "easy", why ask me to do it?
This is quite different from "Not too complicated", "Not very technical" or, as some longstanding clients say, "It's should be easy for you"
I fully agree with Richard. It is for the translator to say whether it is easy or not and the opinion might differ from translator to translator. In any case if it is 'easy' why ask translator to do it?
| | | | | Put an end to the speculation ... | Aug 13, 2008 |
... and just ask to see the text.
Simple as that.
If it's indeed only a few words on each page, about a subject you're familiar with, the fixed fee may just about cover your time. If it turns out to be the nightmare scenario Lia describes, send them packing. Not even worth quoting for a client who would put such a misleading spin on things.
BTW, if you'd have done that with the horrible source text you received the other day - the one that had been (mis)tra... See more ... and just ask to see the text.
Simple as that.
If it's indeed only a few words on each page, about a subject you're familiar with, the fixed fee may just about cover your time. If it turns out to be the nightmare scenario Lia describes, send them packing. Not even worth quoting for a client who would put such a misleading spin on things.
BTW, if you'd have done that with the horrible source text you received the other day - the one that had been (mis)translated into Italian before it landed on your desk - you would have known upfront not to touch it with a barge pole, right?
Handy rule of thumb: don't ever accept work - especially from new clients - without seeing the text first. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Simple solution | Aug 13, 2008 |
Never take on any job until you've seen the files. I ignore words like "easy" which are used to describe a job - that's for me to determine. When I see stuff like this in my inbox - if I am in the mood for something small - I write back briefly and ask for a look at the material.
My bet is that Samuel's guess isn't far off, especially if this is an Italian agency. For reasons I don't quite understand Italian agencies are the biggest time wasters that have contacted me, except perhap... See more Never take on any job until you've seen the files. I ignore words like "easy" which are used to describe a job - that's for me to determine. When I see stuff like this in my inbox - if I am in the mood for something small - I write back briefly and ask for a look at the material.
My bet is that Samuel's guess isn't far off, especially if this is an Italian agency. For reasons I don't quite understand Italian agencies are the biggest time wasters that have contacted me, except perhaps for a few Indian agencies. The rates they propose are not even worth the effort to laugh at. I hope that at some point ProZ implements filters for job notices in which the outsourcer's country can be specified. ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:08
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Interesting to see your vent about Italians.
This agency is based in the United States (which is why they are offering to pay in $US)
BTW my other thread started yesterday about the bad behaviour of another outsourcer is about an outsourcer based in Germany.
All of my best clients are Italian.
[Edited at 2008-08-13 09:07]
| | | | | That could have something to do with the language pairs involved | Aug 13, 2008 |
Tom in London wrote:
Interesting to see your vent about Italians.
This agency is based in the United States (which is why they are offering to pay in $US)
BTW my other thread started yesterday about the bad behaviour of another outsourcer is about an outsourcer based in Germany.
All of my best clients are Italian.
[Edited at 2008-08-13 09:07]
Germany certainly isn't immune from bad actors, but it's also not where I would expect there to be much demand for IT->EN. I've noticed a general tendency that proposed rates from countries in which neither language in a pair is the language of daily use tend to be quite a bit lower than in a country where one of those languages is the national language. Thus German, Austrian, Swiss or British customers tend to offer better rates for DE->EN, whereas the Spanish, Italians, Czechs and other are on the low end for that pair. (The Netherlands are an exception to this apparently, and I don't even like to think about the US market given the current exchange rates.)
I think that "premium" Italian to English jobs would probably be concentrated in Italy or in an English-speaking country. My experience with Italian agencies has been only for my language pair, and I haven't had a single worthwhile contact from there in 7 years.
| | | | Anita Cassidy (X)
United Kingdom
English to German
| agree with Heidi and Lawyer-Linguist | Aug 13, 2008 |
Considering you're based in the UK and that $30 is about £15 (which is rather low even for a mini-job flat rate in my personal opinion)...
If I didn't think I was simply wasting my time, I would ask to see the document(s) and then give them MY price. I'd never ever accept a job without seeing the document(s) first.
It's also worth checking how they propose to pay, since hefty fees might apply for US cheques and bank transfers from the US to the UK, which means you might end up worki... See more Considering you're based in the UK and that $30 is about £15 (which is rather low even for a mini-job flat rate in my personal opinion)...
If I didn't think I was simply wasting my time, I would ask to see the document(s) and then give them MY price. I'd never ever accept a job without seeing the document(s) first.
It's also worth checking how they propose to pay, since hefty fees might apply for US cheques and bank transfers from the US to the UK, which means you might end up working for nothing. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:08
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | I would do that if I could | Aug 13, 2008 |
Yes Anita, I would normally expect to see the source text, but this was a Proz.com invitation for bids. (yes! Bids to do that job for even less than $30!) and there was no option to see the text. It was a matter of put in your bid, end of story.
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All the suggestions above are valid ways of dealing with this. Asking for a wordcount, asking to see the source text, etc., can all help settle this.
My problem, however, is not the fact that the outsourcer used a flat rate or the exact amount of that flat rate. My problem is the fact that they even mentioned a rate. I know, many of them do and many of us accept that practice. But in this case, the rate comes along with the mentions "easy to do" and "urgent". Only the service provid... See more All the suggestions above are valid ways of dealing with this. Asking for a wordcount, asking to see the source text, etc., can all help settle this.
My problem, however, is not the fact that the outsourcer used a flat rate or the exact amount of that flat rate. My problem is the fact that they even mentioned a rate. I know, many of them do and many of us accept that practice. But in this case, the rate comes along with the mentions "easy to do" and "urgent". Only the service provider can determine just how easy the job is and how long they may take to finish the job - and how much all that is worth to them.
So, no. I don't take the lump sum in this case, even if it would in fact cover my time (which I highly doubt it will, considering the highly unprofessional wording of the offer). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Is hearing the rate a problem? | Aug 13, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
My problem, however, is not the fact that the outsourcer used a flat rate or the exact amount of that flat rate. My problem is the fact that they even mentioned a rate.
In my country, if you need to go somewhere you can call a taxi, but you can as well go out in the street and raise your hand... somebody stops and you say the direction and the sum you are going to spend... If the sum is good for the driver, he/she will take you on board... Some people earn this way for a living, some take passengers to compensate for fuel, if the passenger goes in the same direction... (BTW, quite ecological approach -- the more people there are in the car, the less the per capita fuel consumption and exhaust rate is... )
So, why not listen to the offer and compare against the cost? Anyway, you say the last word -- "Yes" or "No"... It's up to you... You make decision, whether you watch TV or make any money in the same time-slot... Don't be afraid of low rates... Think of the job, not the money... The latter will come... Sometimes, such jobs turn into the investment in your advertisement...
Next time, tell that that was an exception and inform of the rates... Good people will stay with you...
[Редактировалось 2008-08-13 18:45]
| | | | | Translation is a global business | Aug 13, 2008 |
Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:
mebody stops and you say the direction and the sum you are going to spend... If the sum is good for the driver, he/she will take you on board [...][/quote]
Well, in these parts, it is the opposite. In fact, taxi drivers are required by regulation to charge a price that is fixed by their association. So, even if they wanted to, they are not allowed to negotiate. They have a meter and they are not allowed to charge more or less than what the meter indicates. I realize that in your country, it may be different.
But let's not forget that translation is a global business. This means that the practices used by people all over the world are not based on the practices in any one country.
If you look at this from another angle, not the practical one but the one based on principles, you will notice that it is always the person selling a good or a service who decides how much it is worth, and it is up to the client to accept or decline. If there are so many slave rates on our respective markets, it is precisely because this principle is not applied equally everywhere. If it was, trust me, people would be much happier about their earnings. And it is not just me saying this - the forum on this site is presently buzzing with posts coming from all directions that agree with this principle. Some of those posts come from people in the ex-USSR.
[Edited at 2008-08-13 19:23]
| | | | | Sorry to contradict | Aug 13, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
If you look at this from another angle, not the practical one but the one based on principles, you will notice that it is always the person selling a good or a service who decides how much it is worth, and it is up to the client to accept or decline. If there are so many slave rates on our respective markets, it is precisely because this principle is not applied equally everywhere.
But that simply is not true in practice.
It really only applies where the number of (potential) clients/customers exceeds the number of suppliers. This tends, of course, to be the case of the majority of transactions that we, as consumers, are involved in, whether it is lawyers, doctors, plumbers, tomato sellers or grocers in general, utility service providers and any other consumer transaction which is to be found as a comparison to our own august profession every week on this site.
There are, however, many markets where there are more suppliers than customers. In these, the customer tends to set the price. The milk market in the UK is one such example. Indeed, with the dominance of supermarkets in the UK grocery/food retail market, many agricultural producers are feeling the same impact. Accept what the supermarkets offer, or have your stuff rot on your farm.
In terms of the mass of general unspecialised translators, the same applies - there are more translators than agencies. That is why, for many at the non-specialist end, the agency sets the price.
However, the key is to specialise, and be excellent, such that the services your provide are no longer just "translation", but form a niche, or put another way, you join a market segment in which the number of suppliers does NOT exceed the number of customers, agaencies are battering down your door to have YOU do the work, and where therefore the more usual economic forces apply.
I have made this point before
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You are right, Charlie, the key is to specialize. It is also true that the supply/demand ratio plays an important role in this business just like in most other businesses.
However, where I see a problem emerging is that many translators in the specialized category, where demand exceeds supply, act as though they were in the unspecialized category, where supply exceeds demand. It's as if it wasn't clear which segment most translators belong to. Or, to put it bluntly, it's as if trans... See more You are right, Charlie, the key is to specialize. It is also true that the supply/demand ratio plays an important role in this business just like in most other businesses.
However, where I see a problem emerging is that many translators in the specialized category, where demand exceeds supply, act as though they were in the unspecialized category, where supply exceeds demand. It's as if it wasn't clear which segment most translators belong to. Or, to put it bluntly, it's as if translators were expecting their clients to run their businesses for them as they deem fit.
You have a point, Charlie, when you say that it is important to specialize. However, that is only part of the solution. Marketing one's services can, in certain cases, be just as important as specializing. Sadly, most translators don't realize this, or if they do, they simply don't want to go there. After all, they are translators, not marketing specialists. If only they realized how easy marketing can actually be when you are a freelancer... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Even more complicated than that! | Aug 13, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
However, where I see a problem emerging is that many translators in the specialized category, where demand exceeds supply, act as though they were in the unspecialized category, where supply exceeds demand. It's as if it wasn't clear which segment most translators belong to.
After posting the above, it struck me that even this basic division is an over-simplification.
I realised, in fact, that it's not just the segment the translator feels he/she is working in, it can depend on individual projects. And this applies to my own situation.
I do some run-of-the-mill, general translation, for agencies, who tell me what the rate is and I can take it or leave it. Some I take, some I leave. It's cool.
Other jobs, mainly for direct clients, but not exclusively, I get asked "how much" and I say and they can take it or leave it. They usually take it. That's cool too.
But it's taken me about 3 or 4 years to figure this out, and even so I do not consider it in any way to represent the Unified Theory of Translation Pricing. I just happen to think it is the best guess at the moment
It is no wonder that newbies just accept whatever happens to them.
(It also struck me that the supermarkets' role for milk producers is that of a middleman before the consumers get their hands on the milk. Much as agencies are middlemen. I wonder if the theory holds for all industries with middlemen....)
| | | | Heidi C
Local time: 18:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
| First look at the source!! | Aug 14, 2008 |
Tom in London wrote:
Yes Anita, I would normally expect to see the source text, but this was a Proz.com invitation for bids. (yes! Bids to do that job for even less than $30!) and there was no option to see the text. It was a matter of put in your bid, end of story.
You should have started with this information!
If this was a Proz invitation for bids and is already posting a ridiculous price, my recommendation is DELETE AT ONCE and go play solitaire or watch the rinse cycle... That would be less of a waste of time.
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