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(Urgent): Translation of proper name allusions
Thread poster: fidaa2007

fidaa2007
Jordan
Local time: 14:58
English to Arabic
+ ...
Feb 6, 2009

العازر ويهوذا وقابيل والمسيح وياجوج وماجوج
are names translated respactively as :
Lazarus, Juda, Cain,Christ, Yagog and Magog.
In this case, what is the strategy used? is it
1. Retaining the name as such
or
2. Replacement of the name with a target-language name

please note "that I'm posting this topic for the purpose of study and research and that I'm not interested in any political/religious comments from others"



THANKS

[Edited at 2009-02-06 08:31 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-02-06 08:52 GMT]


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Jan Willem van Dormolen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:58
English to Dutch
+ ...
Standard practice Feb 6, 2009

For names that have a commonly accepted standard version in the target language (such as Christ), use that.
For names that don't have a commonly accepted standard version, use a literal transcription, following commonly accepted transcription rules for the language pair.


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Angela Dickson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:58
French to English
+ ...
what research have you already done? Feb 6, 2009

I think people might be more willing to help if you offered your own ideas on the subject - what have you read, what have you thought about, what are you unsure of?

As your question stands, it looks like you are trying to have your essay written for you.


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Robert Tucker
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:58
German to English
+ ...
Lazarus Feb 6, 2009

I'm not quite sure I understand the question, but regarding Lazarus:
The ancient Egyptian designation for Osiris was Asar or Azar. Now, when the Egyptians spoke of their Gods they indicated them with “the” and so we would have had “the Azar.” This term “the” also meant Lord or God, like the Greek word for God The-os or Theos. One of the Hebrew terms for Lord was El and was applied to their many deities, such as El-Shaddai or El-hoim. So when the Hebraic writers included Osiris in their myths they put him in as El-Azar ­ The Lord Osiris. This in the later Latin translation was changed to El-Azar-us. This use of the “us” was the way that masculine names ended under the Roman language. In fact, in Arabic Lazarus is still spelt El-Azir, hence missing the “us”. So we now have El-Azar-us, which reduced further into Lazarus. In this way the Egyptian, or should we say much older mythos, became the literal truth of the Biblical record.

http://www.bestsyndication.com/Articles/2006/g/gardiner_philip/02/022906_serpent.htm


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Sushan Harshe
India
Local time: 18:28
English to Hindi
+ ...
Not sure what exactly you are looking for Feb 6, 2009

Angela is correct, kindly brif you idea.

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fidaa2007
Jordan
Local time: 14:58
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
for more clarification Feb 6, 2009

Angela Dickson wrote:

it looks like you are trying to have your essay written for you.


Sorry Angela, it seems that I didn't express my self very well. In fact, I'm not trying to have my essay written for me, but I was just asking about the starategy used. For more clarification, I'll talk about my subject breifely.
Allusion is considered as a reference usually brief, to a presumably familiar person or thing to another work of literature or art, to a person or an event. It is usually used in a text to provide greater context or meaning to the situation being written about and also to enrich the work by presenting prior texts in a new one. It could be a proper name or a key phrase, and there is a set of potential translation strategies for both types.
Now, in my study i'm trying to find out the strategies prefered by translators when they translate these allusions, and my question was that when we have names we may either transliterate them or translate them into names known to the target language as in (Christ or Lazarus,...etc).
now, if we translate them into Christ, Lazarus...
then what is the strategy used? is it that we have retained the name as it is or that we have replaced it with a target language name?
that's all , I hope every thing is clear and to have a clear answer from you
Thanks.


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Robert Tucker
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:58
German to English
+ ...
Target readership? Feb 6, 2009

According to Wikipedia:
In literature allusion is used to link concepts that the reader already has knowledge of with concepts of discussed in the story

and quoting William Irwin:
Without the hearer or reader's comprehending the author's intention, an allusion becomes merely a decorative device

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allusion

It's no good "alluding" to El Azir if the reader is not going to recognize that Lazarus is being referred to.

If the person "alluded" to is only really known in his/her own language then one cannot do other than leave it in the original language or a transliteration of it, when presumably as quoted above the "allusion" becomes merely decorative.


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chica nueva
Local time: 01:58
Chinese to English
Not too sure of the context of the question, hope this helps... Feb 7, 2009

I am sorry I can't read the script. I have no practical experience really in this, but I notice how the Chinese handle foreign names in their written texts ... I have Chinese reference works here with biographical notes on foreign figures, ancient and modern where the name is often presented in source and target forms as a header. I could check further if you wish.

I suggest the first time the name appears in the source text, 1 use both (or several) versions depending on the readership, then thereafter go to the target-text form, whatever it is. Or alternatively 2 use a glossary, or foot/endnotes, if you do not wish to clutter the text.

Unless the client has certain requirements, perhaps it is your choice. On the other hand, there may be a 'style manual' perhaps in your country - there are sometimes for certain types of texts. Perhaps you could check with the national translators' association.

In Modern Standard Chinese:
Lazarus 拉撒路, Judah 犹大, Cain 该隐, Christ 基督, Magog 玛各
(pinyin pronunciation: Lasalu, Youda, Gaiyin, Jidu, Mage).


Interesting question:

How would you translate Avicenna? :

'Abū ‘Alī al-Ḥusayn ibn ‘Abd Allāh ibn Sīnā Balkhi', known as Abu Ali Sina Balkhi (Persian: ابوعلی سینا بلخى) or Ibn Sina (Persian: ابن سینا) and commonly known in English by his Latinized name Avicenna (Greek: Aβιτζιανός), (born c. 980 near Bukhara, contemporary Uzbekistan, died 1037 in Hamedan in modern Iran) was a Muslim Persian polymath ...' Wikipedia.

In Chinese it's 阿维森纳 Aweisenna. I'm guessing this name-form has come by way of Western scholars, perhaps even the 16C Jesuits ...


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B D Finch  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:58
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
Name or title? Feb 9, 2009

Jan Willem van Dormolen wrote:

For names that have a commonly accepted standard version in the target language (such as Christ), use that.
For names that don't have a commonly accepted standard version, use a literal transcription, following commonly accepted transcription rules for the language pair.


His name was Jesus, "Christ" means the messiah and so it is a title.


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