Off topic: How to work with tags
Thread poster: Arturo Mannino

Arturo Mannino  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:49
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Jul 24, 2003

Hi everybody,

I was asked by a client not only to keep every tag in a project, but also to make sure that every target segment has exactly the same tags as its sorce segment. It sounds very reasonable but there is a little problem: although I use Trados and don't ever see the tags except in the form of pics I don't need to deal with, I understand that every such pic has some meaning like "the following word will be placed on the left and will be written with red capitals".

So, if you are translating from german into italian like I am doing (but I think this may happen in all language pairs) you will soon see that you cannot ensure that "that tag" will be put next to "that" word in the target segment too. The way you build sentences in both languages is just different. If the client wants the same tags to be put in both source and target segment, how can I ensure that all words will have the correct font, size, color, position and so on when he converts the rtf file? How can I ensure that "Welcome to xy.com" will be great, bold and red and not small, italic and green?

I am using TagEditor for the first time. Until know I was using Trados to translate word files. May there is something I should know about the programm, too.

Does anybody have an idea? Or two?


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Beatraduc
Local time: 16:49
English to French
Be very careful ! Jul 25, 2003

That's the only advice I can give you.

I did myself translation from English to French, in Word. I have no CAT Tool. So the problem was to manage the French between the relevant tag,as you say.
I takes time because for every sentence, I had 2 English versions first. I left the first one in English and then I replaced the second one with the French words.
At that stage you need to understand how HTML (or whatsoever) works to ensure no mistake. I had a PDF file for reference and I was looking which words were in bold, in red etc.. to place the French words in the correct places between the right tags.

I hope you'll understand my meaning, I gave you my experience, I'm not sure it is the easiest way but I managed. Since then I tried to learn a bit about programming.
You can see interesting tips in a tutorial done by a ProZ member named Gianfranco Manca. I found it very useful and I understood better the way tags work.

Courage

Beatrice


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jmadsen  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:49
Tags are a pain... Jul 25, 2003

...but translation is not impossible.

In that sense, TagEditor is a good tool, as the programme will not allow you to delete tags, and if a target sentence does not contain a tag present in the source sentence (e.g. at fuzzy matches), the programme will warn you about it.

Also note that you have different "tag viewing levels", represented by three blue diamonds (one wider than the other) on the Standard toolbars. If you choose the middle or right option, you can see what kind of tag it is. This is useful if you know about HTML tags.

Finally you can preview the resulting document by chosing the relevant flag tab at the bottom in the TagEditor window.

But tags *can* be troublesome, so be careful!


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:49
German to English
+ ...
Simple solution Jul 26, 2003

The best way of handling this will depend upon the CAT tool you are using (in your case Trados) and the actual tagged format (you don't say, but I'm guessing HTML). I am in a similar situation as most of my work is done on OpenOffice.org format files in OmegaT.

A simple but effective trick for any format and CAT tool, though, is to keep a copy of the source text open in a different window. Then, when you come across tags, you can switch windows to see at a glance what formatting elements they represent.

HTH,
Marc


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:49
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
Use the padlock Jul 27, 2003

Your first time with TagEditor? I think you´ll love it!! or hate it!!

To begin with, if I understand your question, is to work with "complete tag text" , you´ll find that on the upper bar (it looks like a big blue diamond, there are three of them, it´s the biggest one) next to a yellow padlock. In the padlock you´ll have to select "All tags". Just in case you´re working on a webpage, from English into your language, you´ll find a tag after the apostrophe "s" of the genitive. That tag should be removed, open the padlock, translate whatever you have to translate and go back to close the padlock.

Let´s assume you have segments which do not have any tags, no problem with them, you just translate the target sentence in the space provided, but then you come to segments with tags, do the copy source (Alt+Ins) and translate in between the tags without altering them. That will copy the original sentence in the target segment with all the tags, if you accidentally remove a tag, the software will ask you to accept or cancel the segment. Good luck!!
Haydée


You can view your work by doing what Jorgen Madsen from Denmark has idicated above.



[Edited at 2003-07-27 00:33]


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Arturo Mannino  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:49
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Segments salad Jul 27, 2003

Hi,

thanks to everybody for your help. Now I understand a little bit more how this thing works. But there is another problem: I finished translating the first doc of the project and since the client wants non-clean documents, I choosed File/Save bilingual as..., and then I opened the file in Word just to see how does it look like. I nearly felt off from my chair: all target segments were placed one after anoher AT THE END of the doc! Does somebody know what's going on?


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:49
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
More about TagEditor Jul 27, 2003

Hi again!! Did you save the bilingual file as a .bif file? Normally you will work with TagEditor from a .rtf document. Once you open it from TagEditor, it will become a .ttx file, when you save it as bilingual, it will be a .bif file. But...you should NEVER open it with Word, always with the Windows Explorer, you know the mess it looks when you open it with Word. Best of luck!!
Haydée )




I choosed File/Save bilingual as..., and then I opened the file in Word just to see how does it look like.


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