Ty Kendall United Kingdom Local time: 01:21 Member (2011) Hebrew to English
Don't want to get embroiled but......
Nov 8, 2011
I'm not speaking for anyone and I'm not attacking anyone and I'm not insinuating that Hanni is affiliated with the QfT campaign in any way.
The only thing I will say is that to accuse people of being "menaced" by the campaign simply because they have reservations about it is counterproductive, and it won't help to get people onside.
The fact is that the industry is de-regulated (at least in my country, but online as well, where most of us work). I am all for the principles involved in the campaign, but I don't see how this campaign will be effectual. Or indeed that it can be.
I am also suspicious of some of the advice/guidelines they propose. What I gleamed from it was that a quality translator is an expensive one who supports them, which I disagree with.
I don't doubt that the campaign organisers and Hanni have their hearts in the right place. I do think they should listen to the concerns and reservations of translators and address them constructively.
Taking an adverserial stance will only alienate the very people you are trying to win over.
The issue of transparency is clearly one which the majority of translators on here are troubled with. It will only help your cause to alleviate this and other issues.
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Angela Dickson United Kingdom Local time: 01:21 Member French to English + ...
!
Nov 8, 2011
I received the same email as Alison.
A simple "no" would have sufficed, in answer to my question.
I won't be taking any further part in this discussion.
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Attila Piróth France Local time: 02:21 Member English to Hungarian + ...
If you can't stand behind your work, by name, you' re not a professional, period. If lawyers were anonymous, they wouldn't be able to charge $300/hour.
So, while I agree with some of the points raised in this campaign (and less so with others), I simply cannot take the whole thing seriously unless the initiator stands behind it squarely, signing it. With it anonymity it remains weightless. This may be enough to get a hundred visitors from this thread but not for anything more substantial.
Best,
Attila
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Jabberwock Poland Local time: 02:21 Member (2004) English to Polish
False premise
Nov 8, 2011
The campaign has to fail, as it is based on a false premise. Assuming that most end clients are naive, gullible folks who just need a little education to double their translation budgets is nonsense... if they were that, they would not be in any business.
While certainly there are clients who have been cheated by agencies or translators and did not receive the quality they expected, most of them know perfectly well what they are paying for. The notion that there might be a relation between price and quality is not that novel or obscure as the campaign website would want us to believe. If managers presented with a given range of rates decide to go with a lower one, it simply means that they are comfortable with a lower quality. And they will always find someone who will provide it - the market is deregulated and will be for the foreseeable future.
As long as campaigns like this maintain that all translations must be of perfect quality and fail to acknowledge that different quality requirements exist and should be taken into consideration, they will fail miserably. Instead, they should educate the clients why a translation of a better quality might be preferable in some cases, or, to be more exact, what they will stand to gain if they see a better quality.
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wizard_of_words Israel Local time: 03:21 English to Hebrew + ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re Mr. Cilian O'Tuama’s posts, specifically the last one:
Nov 9, 2011
Re Mr. Cilian O'Tuama’s posts, specifically the last one:
Let me make it clear once and for all:
Regarding the speculation about my motives, insinuating that I allegedly have some ulterior motives,
Contrary to malicious hints in that direction unjustly attributing to me ulterior motives, I have no connection whatsoever with the website under question.
As a matter of fact, I’ve come across the website by chance the other day, when checking the website of a translation agency named Translation Lincs Ltd that posted a job offer on the ProZ.com site, an agency that surprisingly enough advocates the cause of Quality in Translation and displays its logo, as well as that of ProZ.com., on its site (http://translationlincs.com/about-us/what-we-do/)
Since I understand that questions of the type asked in Mr. Cilian O'Tuama’s posts are allowed in the forum, let me ask, in the same vein, with reference to the ongoing speculation about my motives, the very same questions:
“Is there a personal interest involved? And who are the people behind it?"
Having asked these questions, I rest my case.
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Ty Kendall United Kingdom Local time: 01:21 Member (2011) Hebrew to English
Further concerns....
Nov 9, 2011
Contrary to malicious hints
Firstly, I'm not sure anyone was being "malicious", they were raising a logical question based on the fact that you were the topic starter/poster. I think they were just being inquisitive and wanted full disclosure before supporting a campaign, before putting their name to something they don't fully know inside-out....[more on this shortly]....
Secondly, thank you for providing a name, Rosie Leary. However, this is somewhat of a dead-end. After attempting to research her, I find she has left no online trail whatsoever, so I don't know who she is, what authority she speaks with, if she has any knowledge or experience in translation at all, I can't even find a picture to put a face to the name. In fact, outside of the QfT website itself and those publicizing it, I can find no definitive evidence of her existence at all.
Thus, I returned to your link and decided to call her. Whilst the number looks like your average UK mobile number, it is in fact a premium rateautomated voicemail service. Again, another dead-end.
Consequently, after all this, the campaign is as faceless and anonymous now as it was before. The transparency being requested is not unreasonable. I would not put my name to something if I couldn't see the person pulling the strings and know a bit about them.
In addition, returning to the first point, in the course of my research I noticed that you also advocate the campaign on another website (http://www.termwiki.com/Forum_Topic_EN:The_Quality_in_Translation_Campaign_Statement_twft1320533345720424)
There is nothing wrong with this per se, and I'm not criticising in any way, but it seems that you are doing more PR and advertising for the campaing than "Rosie Leary". So surely you must see that other translators may perceive a vested interest or some kind of link with the campaign and ask about it, this is not being malicious, it is responding to the available evidence in a logical manner.
"If the agency is working with inexperienced translators, is ISO certification truly meaningful
The insinuation here (and throughout the paragraph) is that veteran translators are "better" than novice ones. This is another sloppy generalization, there is no guarantee that a veteran translator hasn't fumbled their way through 10 years of translation and no reason to believe a novice isn't equally capable. If this logic were applied, only veteran translators would be given work....then when they retire....what then? The novice translators wouldn't have been given a chance so will have zero experience.
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Emma Goldsmith Spain Local time: 02:21 Member (2010) Spanish to English
Anonymity
Nov 9, 2011
I sent the following email to the only contact provided in the website of reference:
Hello,
I found your website through a ProZ forum thread, but cannot find any other information about who you are, where you’re based, whether you’re one person or lots….
In short, I would certainly back your campaign if you’re willing to tell us more about it.
Looking forward to learning more,
Emma Goldsmith
___________________________
Emma Goldsmith
Spanish to English translator
T: (+34) 91 872 8301
M: (+34) 657 322 445 www.goldsmithtranslations.com
and I received this reply:
We actually took a conscious decision that the focus would be the message and not the members so everybody here keeps very much in the background. We don’t as such even ask for the campaign itself to be promoted - simply the ideas. You, or indeed anybody else, is wholly free to take any or all of the content and launch your own campaign. That, in our eyes, would only be good.
(...)
Best regards
Tom - Campaign Coordinator
Quality in Translation
(I have omitted the email address and url that followed for the purpose of this thread)
My response was:
Dear “Tom”
Well, thank you for replying, but I’m afraid you didn’t answer any of my questions (who you are, where you’re based, whether you’re one person or lots….)
So, now you know who I am (I deliberately added my details in my email signature to my first email), but I still have no idea who you are.
Best regards,
Emma
And I received this answer:
Hi Emma,
Many thanks for your kind note.
Our feeling is that all this is completely missing the point. Our point is simply that the translation industry should be striving to improve the quality of the service provided to customers. In most other industries this would be pretty uncontroversial. As we’ve said repeatedly “we’re not asking you to buy anything, donate money or register. All we ask is that you spread the message in whatever way you can.” This obviously includes spreading the message without making any reference to the campaign itself. The campaign is simply about starting a conversation. It is for others to take the message into their client meetings and in their dealings with translators.
Please feel free to publish this or any other correspondence.
Best regards
Tom - Campaign Coordinator
So, in short, I haven't got any further than anyone else in this case.
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Attila Piróth France Local time: 02:21 Member English to Hungarian + ...
Thanks, Emma
Nov 9, 2011
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
So, in short, I haven't got any further than anyone else in this case.
I think you got some rather important information here: anonymity is acceptable and desirable for the person(s) behind this campaign, and they will not disclose their identity even when a professional translator provides very reasonable arguments to do so. That's perfectly enough to judge whether they can be taken seriously or not.
Best,
Attila
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wizard_of_words Israel Local time: 03:21 English to Hebrew + ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re Emma's post
Nov 9, 2011
Dear Emma,
Although I’ve decided not to have anything more to do with the discussion – which, I am emphasizing once again, I’ve started completely innocently, without any hidden motives, and only after asking for and receiving professional advice and encouragement on the part of ProZ.com administrators whose names I cannot divulge, being under confidentiality commitment – I would like you all to know that, at the same time, I’ve taken similar action and appealed to TranslationLinc Ltd., the translation agency on whose site I saw the Quality in Translation logo.
My appeal is cited below:
“bounce-handler@proz.com to me
show details 12:51 PM (1 hour ago)
On November 09, 2011, you sent the following message to
TranslationLinc
I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide about
the Quality in Translation website, whose logo is displayed on
your site.
It seems that the website in question has given rise to heated
discussion on a ProZ.com forum, which I've completely innocently
started.
I'm afraid that, if left without due response, it could badly
reflect on you too.
Any validated information, one way or the other, would be
welcome.
Thank you,
Hanni”
As yet, I haven’t received an answer, and once I receive one, I’ll post it on the forum.
Anyway, I do believe – and that’s what motivated me in the first place – that regardless of whether or not the disputed website deserves to be taken seriously, the issue under discussion no doubt deserves very serious attention and consideration, on behalf of all of us hard-working and too often underrated – in both meanings of the word – freelancers.
[Edited at 2011-11-09 13:02 GMT]
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Michele Johnson Germany Local time: 02:21 German to English + ...
Confidentiality agreement? Is proz involved in this?
Nov 9, 2011
wizard_of_words wrote:
I’ve started completely innocently, without any hidden motives, and only after asking for and receiving professional advice and encouragement on the part of ProZ.com administrators whose names I cannot divulge, being under confidentiality commitment
Before this potentially gets moderated, I just have to say: What??! What encouragement from adminstrators and "confidentiality commitment" are you talking about? Is proz somehow involved in the campaign?
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Russell Jones United Kingdom Local time: 01:21 Member (2004) Italian to English
Moderator of this forum
ProZ.com
Nov 9, 2011
To save undue discussion, I can confirm that ProZ.com is not involved in this campaign.
I understand that a fellow Moderator advised the Original Poster that it would be in order to post details of the website in question in this forum - which indeed it is.
I think speculation about hidden motives has now been exhausted and I should be grateful for posters' cooperation in this respect.
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Russell Jones United Kingdom Local time: 01:21 Member (2004) Italian to English
Moderator of this forum
Thread locked
Nov 9, 2011
As constructive comment on this topic seems to have been swamped by (attempted) recriminations, I am locking this thread.
[Edited at 2011-11-09 14:54 GMT]
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