| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Response to Post-Machine Translation Editing Request at 50% Discount of Standard Rates Thread poster: Dylan J Hartmann
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Richard Foulkes (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
German to English
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| IBM have switched to PEMT apparently | Oct 2, 2014 |
There was an article on MT in the Economist a short while back. If memory serves, it said that IBM had saved 40% on their translation budget by switching to in-house PEMT. I imagine IT is one of the fields where MT yields best results.
I wouldn't do it myself but it is a market reality whether we like it or not.
| | | | | Different name... | Oct 2, 2014 |
MT should really be called MpT... Machine Pseudo Translation...
Some dedicated engines produce good quality (apparently), but the domains are very specialised and restricted... that's why, if I'm asked, I request to see the output first.... and if the client is not trying to make more money by paying me less, I might even do it... unfortunately (or fortunately), this has never happened yet... 
| | | | | It's about ethics and how to run a successful translation service, not "whether we like it or not" | Oct 2, 2014 |
Richard Foulkes wrote:
There was an article on MT in the Economist a short while back. If memory serves, it said that IBM had saved 40% on their translation budget by switching to in-house PEMT. I imagine IT is one of the fields where MT yields best results.
I wouldn't do it myself but it is a market reality whether we like it or not.
You should probably back up your claim with links and also show what kind of texts are involved and what is really done to arrive at the results. It is not a market reality that MT is good enough to build the basis for accurate and efficient translations arrived by simply post-editing or do some light post-editing. Did you read the whole thread? Are you aware of the market reality that some agencies are trying to use the pseudo-concept of PEMT to scam you and get translations for inadequate rates? That is unethical and should be pointed out to all the newcomers in our field or whoever else who thinks he/she must do what others do who don't know any better.
Let's talk about what helps translators run a successful and ethical business, not say that PEMT is a market reality whether we like it or not, implying we have to accept such things. "Whether we like it or not" is the opposite of sound advice for any professional translator.
PS: Don't want to sound impolite but I feel strongly about the subject.
[Edited at 2014-10-02 17:58 GMT]
| | | | Colin Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
French to English
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| it's getting there... | Oct 3, 2014 |
I work in investment/banking translation (FR - EN), and have never been offered a P-EMT job. But recently I experimented with the various MT options available in Memsource and subsequently in Trados Studio 2014.
The Google service offered by Trados was utter, utter rubbish - simply replace the French word with a possible equivalent English word.
MT Enhanced by Microsoft Translator, which I originally discovered through Memsource and managed to hook up to Studio, is a di... See more I work in investment/banking translation (FR - EN), and have never been offered a P-EMT job. But recently I experimented with the various MT options available in Memsource and subsequently in Trados Studio 2014.
The Google service offered by Trados was utter, utter rubbish - simply replace the French word with a possible equivalent English word.
MT Enhanced by Microsoft Translator, which I originally discovered through Memsource and managed to hook up to Studio, is a different matter. It has clearly been "trained" in banking and financial terminology, IT as well I suspect, and is capable of producing quite coherent sentences, with the occasional (but relatively few) horror/LOL (which enlivens a translator's day, let's face it).
Basically it's like proofreading/reviewing a rather uneven translator's work. It certainly gives me a productivity advantage, if only because I'm not the fastest typist and it fills in whole chunks of text automatically for me to edit.
In fact, it's worryingly good, because, like it or not, MT IS the future and if we don't get in on it most of us will find ourselves squeezed out or reduced to translating 3rd generation pdfs of faxes that can't be OCR'd.....
[Edited at 2014-10-03 09:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Colin Smith wrote:
MT IS the future
Not for the kind of texts that I translate, which are full of allusion and ambiguity, and have stylistic characteristics that no machine could ever understand.
In my experience of looking for a way to save time (and avoid Repetitive Strain Injury due to excessive typing) by using MT, I've found that MT is indeed very clever at creating what *looks like* an almost credible translation.
But this is an artful deception, because when I go to work on polishing and editing the translated text, I discover that it's actually not anywhere close to what's required. Most of it may seem correct, but then it gets one key phrase completely wrong, requiring the whole sentence to be reconstructed starting from the original text in the source language. And (even in very technical documents, such as engineering reports) there's always a flow, a "tone" if you will, that the machine doesn't perceive.
So this does not save time; it creates extra work and brings with it the new risk that an *apparently* correct translation may conceal fundamental mistakes that are difficult to spot, even in proof-reading.
Perhaps you hope for a future in which human beings themselves will not be necessary. In the world of MT the logical next step would be to eliminate the translator completely.
Be careful what you wish for !
[This post was created automatically by Microsoft iThink]
[Edited at 2014-10-03 10:19 GMT]
| | | | Colin Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
French to English
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| it's getting there... | Oct 3, 2014 |
[quote]Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Let's talk about what helps translators run a successful and ethical business, not say that PEMT is a market reality whether we like it or not, implying we have to accept such things. "Whether we like it or not" is the opposite of sound advice for any professional translator.
Bernard, I think the worst advice we could give translators starting out is to give them the impression that good old-fashioned translation is a sacred tradition that will never die, and that they will be able to find enough of it to make a living. I see the translation industry changing dramatically in the next few years. Gone are the days of big fat repetitve contracts, prospectuses, reports etc. that would keep you busy for weeks and that you could leverage with a CAT tool to turn round some serious volumes. Translation agencies now pre-translate documents and send us the leftovers to translate. End clients are getting increasingly wise to the weight of technology being applied to translation to reduce overall cost.
My advise to any translator starting out is to get involved in every CAT/MT development they can, that way they might be able to survive.
| | | | Colin Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
French to English
+ ...
[quote]Tom in London wrote:
Not for the kind of texts that I translate, which are full of allusion and ambiguity, and have stylistic characteristics that no machine could ever understand.
[This post was created automatically by Microsoft iThink]
[quote]
I did specify the fields in which MT is making progress, which are required to be absolutely free of allusion and ambiguity!
Obviously there will always be fields that MT will never be able to handle, but I would suggest that the bulk of commercial (i.e. non-literary) translation, from which most of us must extract an income, does not fit in to that category.
I don't know why you think I am pro-MT, I never said that. I just recognise that I am going to have to be involved in it if I am going to earn my living from translation 20 years from now.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Colin Smith wrote:
MT IS the future
Not for the kind of texts that I translate.
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