| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | Post-editing machine translations is a misnomer but there are now training sessions for it Thread poster: Bernhard Sulzer
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Kevin Fulton 
United States
Local time: 12:30
German to English
| Doesn't affect my segment | Feb 24, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
You haven't used it yourself and are supporting it?
[Edited at 2015-02-24 17:48 GMT]
Yes, just as I support the use of bicycles as an alternate mode of transportation, even though I'm not a bicyclist myself.
Machine translation has no relevance to my current market segment and it's really not worth my time to give it much thought or engage in extensive discussion of the topic.
Apparently your situation is different.
[Edited at 2015-02-25 14:21 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 18:30
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Bernhard Sulzer wrote: http://translationjournal.net/journal/29computers.htm [https://web.archive.org/web/20080215194935/http://translationjournal.net/journal/29computers.htm] The first stage in human translation is complete comprehension of the source language text.
I believe that this text's description of human translation is not based on any scientific study of what actually happens during human translation, but on what the author believes is the ideal procedure in human translation. This is, in fact, very similar to the translation theory what I was taught at college when I studied translation for three years.
Translation students are also often taught to approach translation like this, i.e. first comprehend the source text, then type the translation. To anyone who works mainly in an academic setting, or to anyone doesn't work in a fast-paced commercial translation environment, it would seem only logical that translation should work like this.
After all, how can you type a translation before you've comprehended the source text? Yet in reality, this is precisely how translation in the real world often works.
I do not read the entire source text segment before my fingers start typing the translation. My brain does not wait until I have read the entire segment before it starts processing the source text. I do not memorise the entire source text sentence and formulate a translation in my mind before I start typing it. And while I type the translation, my eyes actively seek out the portions of source text that relate to that which I'm typing at that moment. And during the typing, my two hands' fingers return the cursor to points in the translation that needs updating or tweaking based on what new information has reached my brain or that my mind has reformulated since after the moment that the segment was first presented to me.
Maybe there are translators out there who translate in the way that this article describes, whose brains are capable of memorising large chunks of source text and processing it internally before the translator reaches for the keyboard or speaks into the speech-to-text program to commit it to text. And for such translators, your arguments about the illogicalness or incorrectness of machine translation editing would actually apply.
Samuel
[Edited at 2015-02-25 10:54 GMT]
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 12:30
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Regarding the first stage | Feb 25, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Bernhard Sulzer wrote: http://translationjournal.net/journal/29computers.htm [https://web.archive.org/web/20080215194935/http://translationjournal.net/journal/29computers.htm] The first stage in human translation is complete comprehension of the source language text. I believe that this text's description of human translation is not based on any scientific study of what actually happens during human translation, but on what the author believes is the ideal procedure in human translation. This is, in fact, very similar to the translation theory what I was taught at college when I studied translation for three years. ... I do not read the entire source text segment before my fingers start typing the translation. My brain does not wait until I have read the entire segment before it starts processing the source text. I do not memorise the entire source text sentence and formulate a translation in my mind before I start typing it. ...
I don't want to argue, but I didn't take that statement of the article as having to read or memorize the entire text or even one sentence before starting to translate.
It merely says to me that you will have to be able to "comprehend" the text completely, not partially or a little. I mean, as you go through a text, it is necessary to comprehend everything, otherwise an accurate translation would become impossible or be something that happens accidentally. So the first stage is indeed "comprehension" even as you just look at a sentence or part of a sentence because that's your basis for typing anything in the target language. My read.
[Edited at 2015-02-25 16:21 GMT]
| | | | DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 17:30
Spanish to English
+ ...
| "READING LITERATURE WITH MACHINES: Towards computer- based literary criticism" | Feb 26, 2015 |
Abstract: "To read is to interpret what could never be gathered by any formalistic or algorithmic description." This is more or less the common view what literary studies are. But there is and there was another tradition within literary studies. Quantitative approaches and formalistic description have tried to find other and more precise ways to analyze literature. And with the computer 'reading with machines' is no more a metaphor. This lecture traces the other tradition of literary studies and... See more Abstract: "To read is to interpret what could never be gathered by any formalistic or algorithmic description." This is more or less the common view what literary studies are. But there is and there was another tradition within literary studies. Quantitative approaches and formalistic description have tried to find other and more precise ways to analyze literature. And with the computer 'reading with machines' is no more a metaphor. This lecture traces the other tradition of literary studies and elucidates what a computer based literary criticism could be.
Prof. GERHARD LAUER (Göttingen) ▲ Collapse
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Alex Lago
Spain
Local time: 18:30
English to Spanish
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| | Not my thing | Feb 26, 2015 |
Reading these threads I don't think that I will engage in this activity at any point soon.
Looking at the output of Google Translate or similar I would really find it very frustrating and boring to try to edit that, and as many said, it takes longer than translating and the outcome would be worse in any case. For that reason I do not see much point in engaging with the topic for now.
On the other hand, it may be useful for lists of simple commands, sentences or words, ... See more Reading these threads I don't think that I will engage in this activity at any point soon.
Looking at the output of Google Translate or similar I would really find it very frustrating and boring to try to edit that, and as many said, it takes longer than translating and the outcome would be worse in any case. For that reason I do not see much point in engaging with the topic for now.
On the other hand, it may be useful for lists of simple commands, sentences or words, but I am not sure its worth making too much fuss about that. ▲ Collapse
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While most outsourcers demand signed NDAs from their translators, supposedly from their PEMT-ers too, they are apparently oblivious to to the fact that the free online MT itself that they use causes leakage on its own.
Read this:
http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0001947880
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