| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Swear words or verbal assaults in texts - how to cope with it? Thread poster: Veronika Hansova
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| Translation 101 still applies | Sep 27, 2005 |
Veranna, you have changed your own topic altogether, but the same principle still applies.
As a translator, you must never, under any circumstances, improve the linguistic quality or the register of a text you translate.
If you do not understand what the source text says, you may (as I have done) refuse to do the translation, contact the author or client if possible, or add a translator's note to indicate how badly written the source text is.
If the text co... See more Veranna, you have changed your own topic altogether, but the same principle still applies.
As a translator, you must never, under any circumstances, improve the linguistic quality or the register of a text you translate.
If you do not understand what the source text says, you may (as I have done) refuse to do the translation, contact the author or client if possible, or add a translator's note to indicate how badly written the source text is.
If the text contradicts itself, add "[sic]" after each contradictory statement to indicate that you are translating the idea as it appeared in the original.
If the text is so badly written that you cannot make sense out of it, you should give the best possible approximate translation, even if it is a literal word-for-word translation, and indicate (using "[sic]" or a translator's note) that you have translated the idea as expressed in the original, but never polish the sentence on purpose to make it more readable.
Remember, you are translating the text from one language to another, not editing it for publication.
Your client wants to know what was said in source text, but it may also be very important for him/her to know how it was said. Many business and legal decisions are made based on how something was said rather than on what was actually said. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 06:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Improve if improving is called for, I say | Sep 27, 2005 |
Orestes Robledo wrote:
As a translator, you must never, under any circumstances, improve the linguistic quality or the register of a text you translate.
I disagree. If the purpose of the text is to be unclear, then you must translate it so that it is unclear in the target language. But if the original author was simply a bad writer and he did not intentionally mean to write badly, and if the purpose of his text is actually to be clear, then your translation should also try to be clear.
Granted, this principle does not apply to deliberate direct translation (such as the translation aka transcription of historical documents or the translation of legal documents).
The translator is not merely a mirror in which the target audience sees the source text. The translator is a facilitator of communication. This does not, however, mean that the translator has the right to add or remove anything from the text willy-nilly.
If I were the translator of a newspaper's letters column, and I received a letter obviously written by a non-native speaker or an uneducated person, I surely won't include the same number of spelling errors in my translation for the sake of "faithful adherence to the original"... But if the letter was from a little child whose mistakes are obviously the type of errors commonly made by children, then I might actually add the type of mistakes in the translation that children are likely to make in the target language. You see, it's not so simple.
If the text contradicts itself, add "[sic]" after each contradictory statement to indicate that you are translating the idea as it appeared in the original.
The sic-ing is up to the author or the reviewer or the quoter, but hardly the translator, unless it is an academic text of which the translator is also the reviewer.
If the text is so badly written that you cannot make sense out of it, you should give the best possible approximate translation, even if it is a literal word-for-word translation...
If I were translating a personal letter, that's what I'd do, yes, but under any other circumstances I would contact the client to explain to him that I can't translate what I can't understand. If the client is unreachable, I might add a translators' note with alternate translations (depending on whether the client speaks the source language himself).
...but never polish the sentence on purpose to make it more readable.
If the original author exhibits the bad style of writing loooooooong sentences, I would feel free to break up his sentences into shorter ones in the translation, as long as nothing (in terms of meaning) is added or removed.
Remember, you are translating the text from one language to another, not editing it for publication.
It depends, really. Unless you know that your translation will not be used for publication (such as translating medical reports or transcripts), it's safer to assume IMO that it *will* in fact be published in some form or another.
| | | | lenkl
Local time: 06:46
French to English
| A translation should read well | Sep 28, 2005 |
I couldn’t agree more with Samuel Murray (or less with Orestes Robledo, although he does have a point when he says the topic drifted). I’m always pleased with myself if I feel that my translation reads better than the original. I assume clients are happy too since it makes them look good. If necessary, I include endnotes calling attention to possible mistakes and indicating whether I corrected them in the translation or not.
Serious translators are notorious nitpickers and we n... See more I couldn’t agree more with Samuel Murray (or less with Orestes Robledo, although he does have a point when he says the topic drifted). I’m always pleased with myself if I feel that my translation reads better than the original. I assume clients are happy too since it makes them look good. If necessary, I include endnotes calling attention to possible mistakes and indicating whether I corrected them in the translation or not.
Serious translators are notorious nitpickers and we need to show a bit of humility at times and stop considering ourselves so much smarter than the people who write the stuff we translate. We're just different: we know how to translate. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Veronika Hansova
Czech Republic
Local time: 06:46
Member (2006)
English to Czech
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you, Samuel and Lenkl | Sep 28, 2005 |
Actually, thank you all for your advice and actually sharing your personal experience. The purpose of my questions, though the other seemingly diverted from the main topic, was alreday discussed here - I am sure. "How faithful the translation should be..." I just needed practical examples.
Contacting the client... easy to say but sometimes quite hard to do. Most of the time I receive translation jobs via some translation agency and contacting the client would be infringing unwritten agree... See more Actually, thank you all for your advice and actually sharing your personal experience. The purpose of my questions, though the other seemingly diverted from the main topic, was alreday discussed here - I am sure. "How faithful the translation should be..." I just needed practical examples.
Contacting the client... easy to say but sometimes quite hard to do. Most of the time I receive translation jobs via some translation agency and contacting the client would be infringing unwritten agreement with the agency.
I understand that keeping the style of the source text is as much important as keeping the meening of its message.Translating the contents of an erotic movie should not be in journalistic or medical style. However I wanted to point out to situations were you just cannot avoid adjusting or smoothing the "facade".
Concerning the business letter in the first case as mentioned above - I stick the rules of our profession and I translated the curses and accusations as faithfully as I could, only avoiding word-for-word translations of some typical Czech courses that have much to do with animals - Czech specialty.
Concerning my second issue - the incorrect stylistics, I decided to ignore that fact. I put the words in correct order in sentences, I avoided grammatical mistakes (at least I hope I did), however I preserved its rough and sort of uncivilized style.
My opinion is closest to Samuel's and Lenkl's. period. ▲ Collapse
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John Walsh
Italy
Local time: 06:46
Italian to English
Tina Vonhof wrote:
You can always refuse the job,
Yes you can always refuse the job. Either you refuse or you do it well, and well in this case means translating all the raunchy details.
| | | | Francisco ABREU
Brazil
Local time: 01:46
Member (2005)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| The spirit of the message | Oct 8, 2005 |
As a translator I try, at all times, to be faithful to the original message, what is slightly different as being faithful to the text. Sometimes when you are too focused on the text itself you end up conveying a whole different message than the one intended by the original writer.
For instance, words and attitudes deemed harsh or offensive in some cultures, are acceptable and normal in another, and vice versa. A sexist comment heard everyday in a certain country could be considered ... See more As a translator I try, at all times, to be faithful to the original message, what is slightly different as being faithful to the text. Sometimes when you are too focused on the text itself you end up conveying a whole different message than the one intended by the original writer.
For instance, words and attitudes deemed harsh or offensive in some cultures, are acceptable and normal in another, and vice versa. A sexist comment heard everyday in a certain country could be considered harassment in another. So what I do in this kind of situation is to assess the impact of the message in the target language and use words that cause similar impact in the target language - sometimes it means softening the wording, sometimes not - it all depends on the context and the language pairs involved. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 06:46
Italian to English
+ ...
| Different cultures | Oct 21, 2005 |
Hi Veranna,
A few years back I refused to finish translating a story which, as I was working on it, turned out to be about some control freak who rapes his girlfriend and her daughter and gets away with it, with the victims submissively accepting their fate. Nope, sorry.
I didn't refuse to finish because of the content, but because of the message.
To do a faithful translation I didn't necessarily have to use the same words, but I would have had to convey the same messag... See more Hi Veranna,
A few years back I refused to finish translating a story which, as I was working on it, turned out to be about some control freak who rapes his girlfriend and her daughter and gets away with it, with the victims submissively accepting their fate. Nope, sorry.
I didn't refuse to finish because of the content, but because of the message.
To do a faithful translation I didn't necessarily have to use the same words, but I would have had to convey the same message. If you feel the message of the original is immoral, by all means refuse to translate it.
There is also a cultural question.
As people from different cultures see swearing and many other things from different viewpoints, if the original contains a lot of strong language that doesn't necessarily mean the translation should too. You interpret the text to convey the message of the original. That doesn't mean repeating it word for word in another language.
For example in Italy it's quite common to get texts that would sound really pompous if translated in the same style, using the same words, but for many Italians that's just a normal way of communicating. On the other hand for a lot of English-speaking people it's very rude. So if I translated the text without taking that into account I wouldn't be doing the client a favour or respecting the meaning of the text, even though I was respecting the content and style.
Mac ▲ Collapse
| | | | | how you translate should depend on the client | Nov 10, 2005 |
In most cases, I'd agree that you should translate the spirit and content of the text as faithfully as possible. But it depends on the client. For example, I work very closely as a translator for a group of University Professors. When translating their articles for publication, I may well change sentence order around, omit tautologous phrases, correct errors, and so on - it's part of what they pay me for.
In the specific case of swearing in a business letter, I would definitely be i... See more In most cases, I'd agree that you should translate the spirit and content of the text as faithfully as possible. But it depends on the client. For example, I work very closely as a translator for a group of University Professors. When translating their articles for publication, I may well change sentence order around, omit tautologous phrases, correct errors, and so on - it's part of what they pay me for.
In the specific case of swearing in a business letter, I would definitely be inclined to ask the client for the context in order to know how best to translate it. I strongly disagree that our role is necessarily to take a text in one language and render it faithfully in another language - our role is to do what the client wants us to do! In the vast majority of cases, this is indeed to render a faithful translation of the original. But not always. ▲ Collapse
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| A nod is enough!! | Mar 21, 2007 |
I think if a source text is crammed with effing and swear words, the translator should not translate the swear words literally as they would offend the audience/readers. H/She can express the reason behind such vulgar words using as many polished and refined words as possible. H/She can say, for example, the speaker here expresses "anger or disappointment by using some swearvwords" without mentioning these swear words. In this way the readers/audience will understand the idea or intention of suc... See more I think if a source text is crammed with effing and swear words, the translator should not translate the swear words literally as they would offend the audience/readers. H/She can express the reason behind such vulgar words using as many polished and refined words as possible. H/She can say, for example, the speaker here expresses "anger or disappointment by using some swearvwords" without mentioning these swear words. In this way the readers/audience will understand the idea or intention of such expressions without being offended. Texts full of such bad language should be truncated because the translator is after ideas and intentions. Morally and professionally the translator is obliged to improve such texts.
OMAR JABAK ▲ Collapse
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