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Formatting etc.
Thread poster: briant
briant  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:29
French to English
Dec 2, 2006

Hey guys, I'm sorry to do this, as I've seen many threads that touch on this, but don't quite seem to nail it down for me.

I received an offer to translate, and did a relatively short test translation. Then I receive the documents. And they are scanned into PDF, and are old, so no Word document likely exists. The problem is that they are formatted a bit, letter head and various fonts and a few boxes.
So, I'd have to basically type this into word and format it. I assume some people do this kind of thing, but the rate I gave for translation was not enough to spend the time in this manner (it would obviously be different in Word). I am new to this and would appreciate any advice.


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Elvira Stoianov  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Local time: 09:29
German to Romanian
+ ...
charge for the extra time Dec 2, 2006

If the client did not say in advance the original was a PDF file, you can ask them to deliver an editable file or charge for the extra time. Just make sure you settle this before starting work.

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Henrik Pipoyan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:29
Member (2004)
English to Armenian
You may want to see this thread Dec 2, 2006

http://www.proz.com/topic/59356

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Nadia-Anastasia Fahmi  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 10:29
Member (2004)
English to Greek
+ ...
My two cents Dec 2, 2006

Why don't you use OCR to replicate the PDFs and work on the formatted text?

This is what I usually do (because I hate working without Trados) and my rate always takes into account the possibility of PDF files to be returned in formatted Word files.


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briant  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:29
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
I should have checked... Dec 2, 2006

Elvira Stoianov wrote:

If the client did not say in advance the original was a PDF file, you can ask them to deliver an editable file or charge for the extra time. Just make sure you settle this before starting work.


They didn't say it was a PDF (and a scanned document). But I feel really stupid for not asking ahead of time what the format would be. They sent the test as a Word file, so I assumed, foolishly, that the job would be the same. I should have ask to see part of the real documents first.


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briant  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:29
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for the link. Dec 2, 2006

Henrik Pipoyan wrote:

http://www.proz.com/topic/59356


I'm reading this now. I may just tell them I don't have ABBYFineReader and can't do it. It seems to be a team project they are just starting, so they should be OK.

[Edited at 2006-12-02 17:40]


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briant  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:29
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
ORC... Dec 2, 2006

Nadia Fahmi wrote:

Why don't you use OCR to replicate the PDFs and work on the formatted text?

This is what I usually do (because I hate working without Trados) and my rate always takes into account the possibility of PDF files to be returned in formatted Word files.


Thanks for the advice. As I mentioned above, I should have check to see what the file type would be. I have heard some of the programs used to changes scanned documents to Word and other programs createmany headaches. I will try it, but have never tried to convert a scanned document.

I have only done a few things before, which have always been in Word and I have no problem with Formatted material in Word or even PowerPoint (although it's ususally slower in PP or Excel etc.) if I can simply follow the formatting given to me in the original document by overwriting ect.

I guessed I learned to be smarter up front in knowing what I'm getting myself into.



[Edited at 2006-12-02 21:33]


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Sergei Tumanov  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:29
English to Russian
+ ...
why not to Dec 2, 2006

send them a handwritten translation (translation is actually what a customer really needs) if delivery in Word format was not specifically agreed?

you received the text in graphic format, you will deliver it in pdf as well....

[Edited at 2006-12-02 18:57]


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 03:29
Partial member
Spanish
+ ...
PDF files and hard-copy Dec 2, 2006

If I get a PDF file or a hard-copy with heavy editing, I just translate the text and format the text in a reasonable way. My 'reasonable way' means upper/lower case, italics, bold, etc. fonts, paragraphs, etc. but NO heavy editing like fonts, text boxes, graphics, etc.

I always ask the client if I should format the document in order to reproduce the original layout, or if they just need the translation. If the client wants me to keep the original layout, I charge my hourly rate. Some clients pay for the formatting and some don't but I don't do it for free because it could take several hours.

Good luck,
Claudia


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 04:29
English to French
+ ...
I suspect you don't use CAT Dec 3, 2006

If you don't use CAT, then this is not really an issue. You don't need the text to be readable by the computer, you only need to be able to read it yourself.

Usually, the DTP (desktop publishing) is not included in the rate for translation. So, this means that you don't have to deliver a copy that looks exactly like the original. I suggest you print the PDF document, and read it on paper while you type the translation into Word. All the client will need to be able to see is which part of the PDF corresponds to which part of the Word document.

If you use CAT, then it's another story. You will then need the source text in an editable format (readable by the computer) and obviously, typing your document may take some time. You should charge for the extra time.

I also agree that just to make sure you know where you're going, you should ask clients of the format of the document - better yet, take a look at the document before quoting. However, the client also failed to mention the format. I don't think they would mind if you revised your rate or charged extra because now you have the extra scanned PDF dimension in your project. Either way, try to fix this so you don't have to do the typing part without being paid for it. If you're dealing with an agency, chances are they will expect you to do this for subsequent jobs. Also, doing the typing is such a boring task that it may well discourage you from ever touching anything that has to do with PDFs again.

All the best!


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briant  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:29
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for the advice. Dec 3, 2006

Claudia Alvis wrote:

... My 'reasonable way' means upper/lower case, italics, bold, etc. fonts, paragraphs, etc. but NO heavy editing like fonts, text boxes, graphics, etc....

Good luck,
Claudia



This document has boxes, tables, molecules (lol). I guess I'll just tell them I can't do all this layout work....

I don't know if I'm stupider for having assumed that because the test was Word, the rest of their files would be sent in that format, or if they are for having just given me all these files without knowing they would need a lot of formatting.

Nightmare

Thanks for your help/advice everyone.

[Edited at 2006-12-03 06:47]


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Ritu Bhanot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:29
Member (2006)
French to Hindi
+ ...
Wordfast plustools Dec 3, 2006

Hi,

I'd like to share what I discovered recently... and it was a pleasant surprise...

You can actually import pdf documents to word using Wordfast plustools

Open MSword and the pdf file. Click on the plustools icon> tools> Cnv and then choose the format you want and click on the button "Convert current PDF to word".

Simple and easy. And I was really amazed... gives good results. Only drawback is that you loose the pictures and tables. But all text (including that in table) is imported correctly.

I wish I knew it sometime ago!!! Hope this is of some help.

Sincerely,

Ritu Bhanot


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Maria Kagan
Local time: 11:29
English to Russian
Conversion from PDF with layout retention Dec 4, 2006

briant wrote:

This document has boxes, tables, molecules (lol). I guess I'll just tell them I can't do all this layout work....

I don't know if I'm stupider for having assumed that because the test was Word, the rest of their files would be sent in that format, or if they are for having just given me all these files without knowing they would need a lot of formatting.


They MUST let you know beforehand about all this formatting extra work. This is not a translation after all... But if you want to continue that work you can try Abbyy PDF Transformer 2.0 to convert your PDF files to Word. This program is really good at preserving original formatting and layout, including tables and pictures. They provide a trial version, with about 50-page limit for free conversion as I remember...

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:22]

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:43]

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:45]


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briant  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:29
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
I told them I couldn't do it "as is." Dec 5, 2006

Maria Kagan wrote:



They MUST let you know beforehand about all this formatting extra work. This is not a translation after all... But if you want to continue that work you can try Abbyy PDF Transformer 2.0 to convert your PDF files to Word. . . .

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:22]

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:43]

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:45]


I told them I should have asked for the file type first, and I basically told them that I could not justify doing this without an editable file.

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

[Edited at 2006-12-05 04:58]

[Edited at 2006-12-05 04:59]


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Sergio Ruffolo  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:29
English to Spanish
+ ...
Can Acrobat Pro resolve this ? Dec 28, 2006

I have Acrobat Pro, and when I save as, or export to word (.doc, or .rtf) the formating is lost. Is there any way to retain the formating with Acrobat?

Thanks



Maria Kagan wrote:

briant wrote:

This document has boxes, tables, molecules (lol). I guess I'll just tell them I can't do all this layout work....

I don't know if I'm stupider for having assumed that because the test was Word, the rest of their files would be sent in that format, or if they are for having just given me all these files without knowing they would need a lot of formatting.


They MUST let you know beforehand about all this formatting extra work. This is not a translation after all... But if you want to continue that work you can try Abbyy PDF Transformer 2.0 to convert your PDF files to Word. This program is really good at preserving original formatting and layout, including tables and pictures. They provide a trial version, with about 50-page limit for free conversion as I remember...

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:22]

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:43]

[Edited at 2006-12-04 13:45]


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