| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | English words which still bother me Thread poster: Isabelle Gelle
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Textklick 
Local time: 18:37
German to English
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In memoriam | Back to the question | Feb 24, 2007 |
Jackie Bowman wrote:
First, Britain doesn’t share a border with France.
Yes, this also baffled me somewhat! I felt that, unlike the English Channel, the claim held little water.
But let us return to Isabelle's question:
I would like to know whether the translators into other languages also have their 'bothering' words and which ones.
My group is German - English. German has more than its fair amount of words borrowed from English - to the justifiable annoyance of many linguistic purists. However, this does make life a little easier here and there for me as a translator.
What mostly "bothers" me is the number of frightful clichés so often used, particularly in German marketing texts. I should add that these seldom contain "imported" words.
Isabelle, you also claim:
Some words are regulated by the French authorities when appearing in translation and we should use the French version of them but most of the translators still use the English ones which is understandable since everyone knows those words.
If ever confronted by irritating/unjustified feedback from non-native speakers who are possibly claiming linguistic experience above their station in life, I smile - and sometimes even quote - one of the finest translators I have ever known.
"Who will be reading this text, will its style contribute towards their reading it with interest and will they precisely understand its content?"
I know that Jackie has a few "key" antipathies, as - AFAIK - does Viktoria.;-)
The way I see it is that if a word will be readily understood (preferred) by the perceived readership and will make a positive contribution in the above sense, then it belongs there.
These might be the rantings of an erstwhile marketing man, so I ask whether they are logical, or does logic have no place in translation?
Chris
[Edited at 2007-02-24 12:45]
[Edited at 2007-02-24 12:46]
| | | | Pierre Bancov
Local time: 19:37
Member (2008)
Japanese to French
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| For all it's worth... | Feb 24, 2007 |
My take on it.
Jackie Bowman wrote:
To Viktoria: we haven’t yet heard from Isabelle and her problems with the English-French translation of the word ‘relevant’. Frankly, I’m astounded that no native French speaker has jumped in with an opinion on this.
Well, I'm actually not really sure where the problem lies.
"relevant" (the english word) has no direct match in French (well, I can't find one right now anyway). The French word "relevant" means something completely different, too.
As for applicable, it seems to me that it's the same word in both English and French.
People in France have not had ‘a lot of English influence mixed into their own language (this has been even more so since the Union started taking off).’ Philologically, of course, the truth has been the exact opposite. If you took all the French out of English, you wouldn’t have a language.
Wait wait wait. The exact opposite of your first statement would be that French has indeed had a lot of influence from English.
The bottom line of the problem is that indeed, people use a lot of english words in everyday life, when they don't need to, because their own language can already supply them with perfectly fine words.
Not true, that. Of course you’d have a language. But it wouldn’t be English, perhaps the richest language known to linguistics.
That's what really bothers me with English, to be honest. I can see the germanic origins of some words, the latin ones of others, the french ones, etc, but what of ENGLISH? I cannot think of any really specifically english word or trait, not a single one. Well I mean, outside of the very improbable pronounciation. (j\k, don't stone me for this)
Whence, therefore, this obsession with French? Could it be that it has less to do with language than with politics? Surely not.
I don't know. I can only speak for myself, and politics are the least of my concerns. I can understand if people adopt a foreign word when their own language lacks one, but not when they already have 10 ways of expressing the same thing.
It just seems to me that they are too lazy to learn their own language...
| | | | Isabelle Gelle
Local time: 18:37
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | Fax and email | Feb 24, 2007 |
Just to elaborate a bit more on the French translation of the words I listed:
- 'Applicable' if used in law (the word is found often in law texts) and in a lot of other instances should be translated by 'le cas échéant'
- 'Email' is usually 'courriel' but I notice that the English word 'e-mail' is often used by translators although it does not appear in the French datab... See more Just to elaborate a bit more on the French translation of the words I listed:
- 'Applicable' if used in law (the word is found often in law texts) and in a lot of other instances should be translated by 'le cas échéant'
- 'Email' is usually 'courriel' but I notice that the English word 'e-mail' is often used by translators although it does not appear in the French database of the French government (http://www.criter.dglf.culture.gouv.fr/pls/DGPB/rechercher.frame_res_fiches)
- 'Fax' should be 'télécopie' but 'facsimile' is also common and again, the word FAX is very often used by translators
When translating software or technical material, there is a glossary reference set up by the French government and which is supposed to be used for the translation: http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/dglf/terminologie/base-donnees.html#83540
I totally adhere to Chris's point of view of knowing who your reader is.
I do understand the pros and cons about the protection of the French language but the good thing about it is that I have ongoing translation work so I do not mind sticking to the rules imposed by the French Ministry of culture - if any -as, because of those rules I earn a good living income...
I have noticed that even the French senior executives heading international companies in France - whichever field they work in - still want to read and speak what we could qualify by 'old French' and many English words would hurt their ears. Most of them are in their late 30's so they do not even belong to the old generation. The point I am trying to make is that even though the English language is definitely the language of business, French and all the other European languages will always prevail in their respective country and as a translator, I try to make sure that I use words which are acceptable and understood by the French native speakers...
Isabelle
[Edited at 2007-02-24 23:58] ▲ Collapse
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Well, one of my colleagures at AIR told me an interesting story, only it happens to be true.
There were a couple of visiting entrepreneurs from France. And every couple of minutes they'd say something that sounded like 'noyeau'
It didn't make any sense.
This lady who is a very experienced translator (and radiojournalist) didn't understand what they were trying to say.
Eventuall... See more Well, one of my colleagures at AIR told me an interesting story, only it happens to be true.
There were a couple of visiting entrepreneurs from France. And every couple of minutes they'd say something that sounded like 'noyeau'
It didn't make any sense.
This lady who is a very experienced translator (and radiojournalist) didn't understand what they were trying to say.
Eventually, she couldn't resist and asked one of them, what did this word mean.
Guess what?
They were saying 'know-how' instead of 'savoir-faire'. And it was really confusing for anyone.
In fact, this 'noyeau' is a joke amongst us.
Well, the other joke is le ministre du ble for hon'ble minister. (but this was thanks to a machine translation tool).
[Edited at 2007-02-26 12:41] ▲ Collapse
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Jan Willem van Dormolen (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 19:37
English to Dutch
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| Not just French needs protection... | Feb 28, 2007 |
It's by far not just French that's invaded by English - or rather: Ameriquish. Dutch suffers very dearly too. So much so, that shoe shops don't call themselves 'schoenenwinkel' anymore, but have 'SHOE SHOP' in large letters above their entrance. And IF people still use Dutch, it's a very strange kind of Dutch. E.g., the pet shop calls itself 'DIEREN WINKEL' in stead of 'DIERENWINKEL' - people insert spaces EVERYWHERE, just because they see English do that too.
And many clients demand that ... See more It's by far not just French that's invaded by English - or rather: Ameriquish. Dutch suffers very dearly too. So much so, that shoe shops don't call themselves 'schoenenwinkel' anymore, but have 'SHOE SHOP' in large letters above their entrance. And IF people still use Dutch, it's a very strange kind of Dutch. E.g., the pet shop calls itself 'DIEREN WINKEL' in stead of 'DIERENWINKEL' - people insert spaces EVERYWHERE, just because they see English do that too.
And many clients demand that I (as translator) follow suit. Last job I did, I was not allowed to translate the software screen 'Configuration manager'. Apparently, these clients believe that Dutch people will understand such terms.
Oh, well, I really should stop here, before I'm getting too excited for my age...
Jan Willem ▲ Collapse
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